Prove that if ab=ac, then b=c.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the statement that if ab=ac and a does not equal 0, then b=c, using only the field axioms. Participants explore various approaches to the proof and clarify the assumptions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof attempt, expressing uncertainty about the validity of assuming a does not equal 0 as part of the theorem being proved.
  • Another participant confirms that the assumption is necessary and correct, noting that if a were zero, a solution with b not equal to c could exist.
  • Some participants discuss the implications of field axioms, particularly the existence of multiplicative inverses for non-zero elements, to derive that b must equal c.
  • A different perspective is introduced regarding the interpretation of ab, with a participant suggesting that the notation may be misunderstood as decimal representation rather than multiplication in a field.
  • One participant mentions the concept of a "cancelation ring," explaining that even without multiplicative inverses, the conclusion b=c can still be reached under certain conditions.
  • Several participants express appreciation for the clarifications and insights provided by others in the thread.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

While some participants agree on the necessity of the assumption that a does not equal 0, there is disagreement regarding the interpretation of the notation used and the applicability of certain axioms. The discussion remains unresolved on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof must adhere strictly to the field axioms, and some express concern over the use of division axioms in their reasoning.

kripkrip420
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Can someone help me prove that if ab=ac and a does not equal 0, then b=c. You can only use the field axioms. Here is my attempt( I am not sure about the final result).

ab=ac
then,
ab-ac=0
a(b-c)=0
a(0)=0 (Already proved this)
since a cannot equal 0, (b-c) must equal zero and we are left with...
b-c=0
b=c

The only problem I have found with the above is that I have assumed that a does not equal 0. I do not know if this is alright since the statement "a does not equal 0" is part of the originial theorem I am trying to prove.

Thank you to anyone who helps!
 
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There is nothing wrong with your proof. The assumption that a <> 0 needs to hold to show b = c. If a was zero then a solution b <> c would exist which is why they stated that a must be non-zero.
 
And more importantly, every field is an integral domain, so b-c must equal 0.
 
kripkrip420 said:
if ab=ac and a does not equal 0, then b=c. You can only use the field axioms.

The only problem I have found with the above is that I have assumed that a does not equal 0. I do not know if this is alright since the statement "a does not equal 0" is part of the originial theorem I am trying to prove.

Thank you to anyone who helps!

The proof starts with the two initial statements:
1. ab=ac
2. a does not equal 0

The proof requires that using these 2 statements, combined with the field axioms, you deduce that:
3. b=c

You did exactly that, and so yes, you can use the statement "a does not equal 0".
What you cannot do, is use the statement that b=c, and you didn't.

[EDIT]However, you did not state what the field axioms are. Do they allow all the steps that you made?[/EDIT]
 
You say that you are using the field axioms, one of which is that every member of the field except 0 has a multiplicative inverse: If ab= ac and a is not 0, then a^{-1}(ab)= (a^{-1}a)b (by the associative law) so a^{-1}(ab)= 1(b)= b while a^{-1}(ac)= (a^{-1}a)c= 1(c)= c[/itex]. That is, multiplying both sides of ab= ac by a^{-1} gives b= c.<br /> <br /> A more general object is the &quot;cancelation ring&quot; in which non-zero members do NOT necessarily have multiplicative inverses but if ab= 0 and a is not 0, then b= 0. In that case, if ab= ac, ab- ac= a(b- c)= 0. Since a is not 0, we must have b- c= 0 and so b= c. An example of a cancelation ring that is not a field is the set of all integers with ordinary addition and multiplication.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ab=ac
It means
10a+b =10a +c
b=c

---
If you don't understand why ab=10a+b,

It will be easier to explain If i give an example:

45=10*(4)+5
ab=10*(a)+b
 
Last edited:
gerimis said:
ab=ac
It means
10a+b =10a +c
b=c

---
If you don't understand why ab=10a+b,

It will be easier to explain If i give an example:

45=10*(4)+5
ab=10*(a)+b

You don't seem to understand what we're doing, here.

The OP is referring to a general Field, and when he writes ab he means a*b where * is the multiplication in the Field. He does not mean what you seem to think he means. That is, ab is not a number written in decimal notation.
 
chiro said:
There is nothing wrong with your proof. The assumption that a <> 0 needs to hold to show b = c. If a was zero then a solution b <> c would exist which is why they stated that a must be non-zero.

Thank you for the clarification and your reply!
 
HallsofIvy said:
You say that you are using the field axioms, one of which is that every member of the field except 0 has a multiplicative inverse: If ab= ac and a is not 0, then a^{-1}(ab)= (a^{-1}a)b (by the associative law) so a^{-1}(ab)= 1(b)= b while a^{-1}(ac)= (a^{-1}a)c= 1(c)= c[/itex]. That is, multiplying both sides of ab= ac by a^{-1} gives b= c.<br /> <br /> A more general object is the &quot;cancelation ring&quot; in which non-zero members do NOT necessarily have multiplicative inverses but if ab= 0 and a is not 0, then b= 0. In that case, if ab= ac, ab- ac= a(b- c)= 0. Since a is not 0, we must have b- c= 0 and so b= c. An example of a cancelation ring that is not a field is the set of all integers with ordinary addition and multiplication.
<br /> <br /> Sorry. I have forgotten to include that no division axioms may be used but nonetheless, thank you!
 
  • #10
Thanks to all who replied! You have helped me greatly!
 

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