Proving a thermodynamic relationship

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a thermodynamic relationship involving entropy, internal energy, and volume changes. The subject area is thermodynamics, specifically focusing on the relationships between temperature, entropy, and volume in various processes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to manipulate the given equations to derive the desired relationship but encounters difficulties with the second part of the expression. Some participants question the validity of the assumptions made regarding the relationship between internal energy and heat capacity, particularly in non-ideal scenarios.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the original poster's attempts, providing corrections and alternative perspectives. There is a recognition of the need to clarify the assumptions regarding constant volume and the applicability of certain equations to non-ideal gases. Multiple interpretations of the relationships involved are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing discussion about the implications of assuming constant volume versus variable volume in the context of the problem. Some participants highlight that the problem statement does not specify constant volume, which adds complexity to the analysis.

Potatochip911
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Homework Statement


Prove that ##TdS = C_vdT + \alpha T / \kappa dV##

Homework Equations


##T dS = dU - pdV##
##\alpha = \frac{1}{v}\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial T}\right )_P##
##\kappa = -\frac{1}{v}\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial P}\right)_T##

The Attempt at a Solution



The ##C_vdT## part is quite easy since for a constant volume process ##dU = C_vdT## but I can't seem to figure out how to get the second part of the expression. After multiplying by forms of 1 I end up with $$-pdV = \frac{\alpha\left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial P}\right)_T}{\kappa \left(\frac{\partial v}{\partial T}\right)_P}PdV$$, now using the cyclical rule here doesn't seem logical since that would introduce a negative so it seems like I need to replace the pressure P with something although I'm not sure what relation I can use to do that.
 
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You've probably figured it out over the past few days, but for one thing, you've got a sign problem: ##T\,dS=dU+p\,dV## because ##p## is compressive stress.
 
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Your mistake is that dU is not equal to ##C_vdT##. That is only correct for an ideal gas. In general, $$dS=\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial T}\right)_VdT+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_TdV=\frac{C_vdT}{T}+\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_TdV$$
From one of the Maxwell relationships, $$\left(\frac{\partial S}{\partial V}\right)_T=\left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial T}\right)_V$$Therefore, $$dS=\frac{C_vdT}{T}+\left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial T}\right)_VdV$$So, $$TdS=C_vdT+T\left(\frac{\partial P}{\partial T}\right)_VdV$$
 
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Chestermiller said:
Your mistake is that dU is not equal to ##C_vdT##. That is only correct for an ideal gas.

At constant volume, ##dU=C_V\,dT## for all materials, as Potatochip911 noted.
 
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Mapes said:
At constant volume, ##dU=C_V\,dT## for all materials, as Potatochip911 noted.
But the problem statement does not say anything about constant volume. In fact, it explicitly indicates that the volume is not considered constant.
 
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