Proving extrema using taylor series and Hessian Matrix

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of Taylor series and the Hessian matrix to demonstrate that a function \( f(P) \) has a local maximum at a stationary point \( P \) when the Hessian matrix is negative definite. Participants explore the implications of the Hessian's properties on the Taylor expansion and the behavior of the function near the stationary point.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to use the Taylor series to show that \( f(P) \) is a local maximum at \( P \) given that the Hessian matrix is negative definite, noting uncertainty about the role of the \( f_{xy} \) term.
  • Another participant provides the form of the second-order Taylor polynomial at \( P \) and suggests that if the Hessian is negative definite, the expansion can be expressed as \( f(P) \) minus a square.
  • There is a reiteration of the Taylor polynomial form, with a question about whether the negativity of \( f_{xx} \) and \( f_{yy} \) can be similarly concluded for the \( f_{xy} \) term when the Hessian is negative definite.
  • A participant challenges the assertion that \( f_{xy} \) can be concluded as negative from the negative definiteness of the Hessian, suggesting a review of definitions related to positive and negative definiteness.
  • Another participant agrees that while \( f_{xx} \) and \( f_{yy} \) can be concluded as negative, the same cannot be said for \( f_{xy} \), raising concerns about whether the terms in the expansion could sum to a positive number if \( f_{xy} \) is large and positive.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the implications of the Hessian's negative definiteness on the \( f_{xy} \) term. There is no consensus on how to conclude the behavior of the Taylor expansion based on the properties of the Hessian matrix.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in concluding the sign of the \( f_{xy} \) term from the negative definiteness of the Hessian, indicating a need for clarification on definitions and implications of the Hessian's properties.

dispiriton
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How do I use Taylor Series to show f(P) is a local maximum at a stationary point P if the Hessian matrix is negative definite.

I understand that some of the coefficients of the terms of the taylor series expansion are the coordinates of the Hessian matrix but for the f_xy term there is no conclusion and how does it affect the Taylor expansion to show it is a maximum?
 
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Write the second order Taylor polynomial at P. It should be of the form
f(P)+ f_xx(P)(x- x_0)^2+ 2f_{xy}(x- x_0)(y- y_0)+ f_{yy}(y- y_0)^2

And if the Hessian is negative definite, you can write that as f(P) minus a square.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Write the second order Taylor polynomial at P. It should be of the form
f(P)+ f_xx(P)(x- x_0)^2+ 2f_{xy}(x- x_0)(y- y_0)+ f_{yy}(y- y_0)^2

And if the Hessian is negative definite, you can write that as f(P) minus a square.

But when the Hessian is negative definite we can only say that f_xx and f_yy are negative. Can the same be concluded for the f_xy term?
 
dispiriton said:
But when the Hessian is negative definite we can only say that f_xx and f_yy are negative.k
No, that is not true- I suggest you review the definitions of "positive definite" and "negative definite".

Can the same be concluded for the f_xy term?
 
HallsofIvy said:
No, that is not true- I suggest you review the definitions of "positive definite" and "negative definite".

From negative definite we can conclude f_xx and f_yy are negative but the same cannot be concluded for f_xy. Thus how do we conclude that when the Hessian is negative the expansion becomes f(P) minus something. Is it possible for the terms behind f(P) to add up to a positive number if f_xy is large (and positive)
 

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