Proving Metric Space Equality: B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2)

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the equality of two open balls in a metric space, specifically in the context of the Euclidean metric in R^n. Participants explore the conditions under which B(x1, r1) equals B(x2, r2), focusing on the implications of the centers and radii of the balls.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes that if B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2) and x1 = x2, then using the triangle inequality leads to the conclusion that d(x1, x2) = 0, implying x1 = x2.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the proof, pointing out that assuming x1 = x2 and concluding the same is circular reasoning.
  • A participant clarifies that x is any element of B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2), which is necessary for the argument.
  • Concerns are raised about the need for assuming x1 ≠ x2 and the suggestion to use proof by contrapositive instead of proof by contradiction.
  • It is noted that showing d(x1, x2) < r1 + r2 does not directly lead to the conclusion that d(x1, x2) = 0, as the argument needs to account for the nature of x1 and x2 being fixed points.
  • A later reply suggests that assuming r2 > r1 allows for a specific example where a point exists in B(x2, r2) but not in B(x1, r1), supporting the contradiction when x1 = x2 and r1 ≠ r2.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of certain assumptions in the proof and the validity of the reasoning used. There is no consensus on the best approach to the proof, indicating ongoing debate and refinement of ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the proof's assumptions and the implications of using specific types of reasoning, such as proof by contrapositive versus proof by contradiction. The discussion reflects the complexity of the argument and the need for careful consideration of definitions and conditions.

radou
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So, I have to prove that in the metric space (R^n, d), where d is the standard Euclidean metric, B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2) <==> x1 = x2 & r1 = r2.

I finished the proof, but I'm not sure about one step.

Assume B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2) with x1 = x2. Using the triangle inequality for x1, x and x2, one obtains d(x1, x2) <= d(x1, x) + d(x, x2) < r1 + r2. Now, since this holds for any x1, x and x2, and specially, for any corresponding r1 and r2, i.e. r1 + r2, we conclude that d(x1, x2) = 0, so x1 = x2. Is this correct?

If so, then it is easy to prove the rest - assume B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2) with x1 = x2 and r1 =/ r2, one easily derives a contradiction.
 
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I don't really understand the exercise. Obviously two balls are equal iff they have the same radius and center; that's what "equals" means...
radou said:
Assume B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2) with x1 = x2. (...) we conclude that d(x1, x2) = 0, so x1 = x2.
You assume x1=x2 and end up with x1=x2?
Using the triangle inequality for x1, x and x2, one obtains d(x1, x2) <= d(x1, x) + d(x, x2) < r1 + r2.
You have not explained what x is. Apparently x is both in B(x1,r1) and in B(x2,r2)?
 
Landau said:
I don't really understand the exercise. Obviously two balls are equal iff they have the same radius and center; that's what "equals" means...
You assume x1=x2 and end up with x1=x2?

Sorry, it was a mistype. The assumption is x1 =/ x2.

Landau said:
You have not explained what x is. Apparently x is both in B(x1,r1) and in B(x2,r2)?

x is any element of B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2).
 
I see. Then it looks ok, except:

- You don't need to assume x1=/x2: you can just use 'proof by contrapositive' instead of 'proof by contradiction' which I think is always preferable.
-
since this holds for any x1, x and x2, and specially, for any corresponding r1 and r2, i.e. r1 + r2, we conclude that d(x1, x2) = 0
You have shown that d(x1,x2)< r1+r2. Since r1 and r2 are arbitrary, conclude d(x1,x2)<=0.
In other words, the part "since this holds for any x1, x and x2" is not in place here. (x1 and x2 are not arbitrary, and the fact that x is arbitrary is not relevant).
 
Landau said:
I see. Then it looks ok, except:

- You don't need to assume x1=/x2: you can just use 'proof by contrapositive' instead of 'proof by contradiction' which I think is always preferable.

I understand - I never actually used the fact that x1 =/ x2, so it's not necessary.

Landau said:
You have shown that d(x1,x2)< r1+r2. Since r1 and r2 are arbitrary, conclude d(x1,x2)<=0.
In other words, the part "since this holds for any x1, x and x2" is not in place here. (x1 and x2 are not arbitrary, and the fact that x is arbitrary is not relevant).

OK, thanks a lot!
 
You're welcome!

radou said:
If so, then it is easy to prove the rest - assume B(x1, r1) = B(x2, r2) with x1 = x2 and r1 =/ r2, one easily derives a contradiction.
Yes, WLOG you can assume r2>r1; then any x with
[tex]d(x_1,x)=d(x_2,x)=\frac{r_2-r_1}{2}[/tex]
would be in B(x2,r2) but not in B(x1,r1).
 

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