Proving Parallelism of Orthogonal Vectors to Null Vectors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of vectors that are orthogonal to null vectors, particularly in the context of general relativity. Participants explore the implications of orthogonality, the nature of null vectors, and the classification of vectors as either parallel to null vectors or space-like.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that any vector orthogonal to a null vector must either be parallel to a null vector or space-like.
  • One participant questions the definition of orthogonality and its implications in the context of the discussion.
  • Another participant provides a mathematical representation of a null vector and an arbitrary 4-vector, suggesting that if these vectors are orthogonal, certain conditions must hold.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the mathematical conditions derived from the inner product of vectors, indicating that if the inner product is zero, the vector is null-like, and if positive, it is space-like.
  • There is a discussion about the choice of basis vectors and how they can be manipulated to represent null vectors in different ways without restriction.
  • One participant introduces the concept of a vector subspace and the ability to find a 2-dimensional subspace that contains the null vector.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and agreement on the implications of orthogonality and the classification of vectors, but no consensus is reached on the overall conclusions or interpretations of the mathematical conditions presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of orthogonality and null vectors, as well as the mathematical steps that remain unresolved or require further clarification.

quantum123
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I read this in the notes:

Show that any vector that is orthogonal to a null vector must be either be:-
i) parallel to a null vector
ii) space-like

How??
 
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Should this be in the howework section?
What's your starting point? What does it mean for two vectors to be orthogonal?
 
Orthogonal means normal, I guess.
This is no homework. I am doing it as a hobby.
This comes out from GR notes describing the light cone, and a general description of the four linearly independent vectors that may or may not lie parallel to the light cone, which is a null surface, ie may or may not be null vectors, and the properties of the vectors that are not null vectors.
 
quantum123 said:
I read this in the notes:

Show that any vector that is orthogonal to a null vector must be either be:-
i) parallel to a null vector
ii) space-like

How??

Let {e_0, e_1, e_2, e_3} be an arbitary orthonormal basis. Then, up to a constant multiple,

n = e_0 + e_1

is an arbitrary null vector. Let

v = v^0 e_0 + v^1 e_1 + v^2 e_2 + v^3 e_3

be an arbitrary 4-vector. If n and v are orthogonal, what does this give you?
 
Thanks. I see.
<n,n>^2=-1^2+1^2=0
<n,v>=0 => =-v^0+v^1=0 => V^1=v^0
Therefore, <v,v>^2 = -v^0^2 + v^1^2 + V ^2^2 + v ^3^2 = -v^0^2 + v^0^2 + V ^2^2 + v ^3^2 = V ^2^2 + v ^3^2 >=0
If =0 , then null-like.
If >0 then space-like.
Correct?
But why can n = e_0 + e_1 for any arbitrary n such that <n,n>=0 where {e^v} is orthonormal basis?
 
quantum123 said:
Thanks. I see.
<n,n>^2=-1^2+1^2=0
<n,v>=0 => =-v^0+v^1=0 => V^1=v^0
Therefore, <v,v>^2 = -v^0^2 + v^1^2 + V ^2^2 + v ^3^2 = -v^0^2 + v^0^2 + V ^2^2 + v ^3^2 = V ^2^2 + v ^3^2 >=0

Yes.

If =0 , then null-like.

For this case, there is one other, trivial, possibility. :smile:

But why can n = e_0 + e_1 for any arbitrary n such that <n,n>=0 where {e^v} is orthonormal basis?

Consider an arbitrary vector in a 2-dimensional spatial plane.

We are free to choose a basis that helps us. For example, we might choose: a basis such that the vector is in the direction of e_1; a basis such that the vector is in the direction of e_2; a basis such that the vector is halfway between e_1 and e_2, i.e., in the direction e_1 + e_2.

None of these choices restricts us.
 
Thank you so much.
I guess you mean a vector subspace.
If we have 4 orthonormal vectors {e} that span a vector space, we can always find a 2 -D subspace which contains n, spanned by orthonormal basis f1, f2.
Hence if n is null, then <n,n>=0 => -n0^2 + n1^2 =0 => n1=n2.
And should be able to find f3 and f4 to complete the {f} for the total vector space T(M).
 

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