Proving (partial mu phi)^2 = dot phi^2 - (nabla phi)^2 in Index Manipulations

  • Thread starter Thread starter spaghetti3451
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Index
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the equation ##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2} = \dot{\phi}^{2} - (\nabla \phi)^{2}##, which involves concepts from tensor calculus and field theory. Participants are exploring the manipulation of indices and the implications of the metric in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are attempting to express ##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2}## in terms of its components and are questioning the correct application of the metric. There are discussions about the proper notation and the interpretation of the indices involved.

Discussion Status

The discussion includes various interpretations of the expression and the correct formulation of the terms involved. Some participants have provided guidance on the use of the metric and the inner product, while others are clarifying misunderstandings regarding the notation and the operations being performed.

Contextual Notes

There are indications of confusion regarding the notation and the definitions of the terms, particularly in relation to the metric and the treatment of indices. Participants are also reflecting on the implications of their assumptions in the context of the problem.

spaghetti3451
Messages
1,311
Reaction score
31

Homework Statement



Prove the following: ##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2} = \dot{\phi}^{2} - (\nabla \phi)^{2}##.

Homework Equations



The Attempt at a Solution



##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2}##
## = (\partial_{\mu} \phi)(\partial_{\mu} \phi)##
## = (\partial_{0} \phi)(\partial_{0} \phi) + (\partial_{1} \phi)(\partial_{1} \phi) + (\partial_{2} \phi)(\partial_{2} \phi) + (\partial_{3} \phi)(\partial_{3} \phi)##

Am I on the right track?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Nearly there. But you seem to be missing a minus sign. And the definitions of ()^2 has a small issue.

Look in your course material or text or whatever you are using. There should be something called a metric. For the purposes of this question it looks like the metric should be a diagonal square matrix, zeroes off axis, and (1, -1, -1, -1) on the diagonal.
 
Is this correct?

##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2}##
##= (\partial_{\mu}) (\phi \partial^{\mu} \phi)##
## = (\partial_{0} \phi) (\partial^{0} \phi) + (\partial_{1} \phi) (\partial^{1} \phi) + (\partial_{2} \phi) (\partial^{2} \phi) + (\partial_{3} \phi) (\partial^{3} \phi) ##
 
failexam said:
Is this correct?

##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2}##
##= (\partial_{\mu}) (\phi \partial^{\mu} \phi)##
## = (\partial_{0} \phi) (\partial^{0} \phi) + (\partial_{1} \phi) (\partial^{1} \phi) + (\partial_{2} \phi) (\partial^{2} \phi) + (\partial_{3} \phi) (\partial^{3} \phi) ##

Not quite. ##\partial_{\mu} \phi ## is a vector. The index is "down." So to get the "square" of such a vector you need the inner product.

##g^{\mu \nu} \partial_{\mu} \phi \partial_{\nu} \phi ##
 
failexam said:
Is this correct?

##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2}##
##= (\partial_{\mu}) (\phi \partial^{\mu} \phi)##
## = (\partial_{0} \phi) (\partial^{0} \phi) + (\partial_{1} \phi) (\partial^{1} \phi) + (\partial_{2} \phi) (\partial^{2} \phi) + (\partial_{3} \phi) (\partial^{3} \phi) ##
Yes, this is absolutely correct (I disagree with Devens on that point) . But it is true that it may also be written as g^{\mu \nu} \partial_\mu \phi \partial_\nu \phi although here we are not doing general relativity so we would usually write it as \eta^{\mu \nu} \partial_\mu \phi \partial_\nu \phi. But you don't need that notation if you know what \partial^0, \partial_0, \partial^i and \partial_i mean.
 
failexam said:
Is this correct?

##(\partial_{\mu} \phi)^{2}##
##= (\partial_{\mu}) (\phi \partial^{\mu} \phi)## [snips]

I see that I forgot to say what was actually wrong. My bad. It's this line. This is taking the derivative ## (\partial_{\mu}) ## of ## (\phi \partial^{\mu} \phi) ##. That is, this is not the same as the previous line. It should be ## (\partial_{\mu} \phi) ( \partial^{\mu} \phi)##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Fredrik
DEvens said:
I see that I forgot to say what was actually wrong. My bad. It's this line. This is taking the derivative ## (\partial_{\mu}) ## of ## (\phi \partial^{\mu} \phi) ##. That is, this is not the same as the previous line. It should be ## (\partial_{\mu} \phi) ( \partial^{\mu} \phi)##.
Sorry, I had misunderstood your point. I thought you were referring to the last line, I had actually ignored the second line, assuming that it was a typo. I agree completely with you.Regards,Patrick
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: DEvens

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
3K
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
8K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K