Proving Subsets: A Venn Diagram Approach

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the subset relationship between two sets defined using set operations and Venn diagrams. The sets in question are X, defined as (A-B) U (B-C) U (C-A), and Y, defined as the complement of (A∩B∩C) with respect to C. Participants explore the proof of whether X is a subset of Y and whether Y is necessarily a subset of X, while also considering the implications of empty sets in their reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for help in proving that X is a subset of Y and questions whether Y is a subset of X, noting that their Venn diagrams appear identical.
  • Another participant outlines a proof strategy by assuming an element x is in X and attempting to show it must also be in Y, detailing the logical steps involved.
  • A later reply suggests a modification to the proof approach, emphasizing the importance of starting with "IF x ∈ X" to avoid issues if X is empty.
  • Another participant confirms that the empty set is a subset of any set, indicating a shared understanding of the implications of empty sets in set theory.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the logical structure of the proof and the properties of empty sets, but there is no consensus on the subset relationships between X and Y, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the necessity of Y being a subset of X.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes considerations about the implications of empty sets and the assumptions made in the proofs, particularly regarding the starting points of logical arguments.

leilei
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Proof subset?

Given three sets A, B, and C, set X = (A-B) U (B-C) U (C-A) and
Y = (A∩B∩C) complement C. Prove that X is subset of Y. Is Y necessarily a subset of X? If yes, prove it. If no, why?
---When I draw the two venn diagrams X and Y, they are the same, but I don't know how to prove it...

Can someone help me out here...
Thanks in advance!
 
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The usual proof for such a statement is: Let x be an element from X and try to prove that it is also an element of Y. So if x is in X, you know that it is in A but not in B, and/or it is in B but not in C, and/or it is in C but not in A. You want to show that it must be in (A∩B∩C)C. If it is in (A∩B∩C) then it would be in A and B and C, so it being in the complement means it is at least not in A or not in B or not in C. So you could suppose it is both in A and B and show that it cannot be in C.

So let me write this out in the right order:
Let x \in X. Suppose that x \in A, x \in B. Then definitely, x \not\in A - B, x \not\in C - A, because if it is in A it cannot be in any set from which we remove all elements of A (and similarly for B). But it must be in one or more of (A-B), (B-C) and (C-A), so it must be in (B - C). That is, x is in B (which we knew) but not in C. So if x is not in C, it cannot be in the intersection of C with whatever set you make up. In particular, it is not in A \cap B \cap C. Therefore, it must be in the complement of that set, which is called Y.

Now try to do the same reasoning for Y \subset X. You have already shown by your Venn diagram that if x lies in Y, it must lie in X. So try to prove it in the same way as I just did.
 
Thanks a lot !
 
There is, however, a technical problem with "Let x \in X"- the proof collapses is X is empty. Far better to start "IF x \in X". That way, if X is empty, the hypothesis is false and the theorem is trivially true.
 
You are right, obviously the empty set is a subset of any set S (vacuously, all its elements are also in S).
 

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