Proving the Representation of Sigma-Algebra Elements as Unions of Atoms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that all elements of a sigma-algebra can be represented as unions of elements whose intersections are empty sets. The scope includes theoretical aspects of sigma-algebras and their properties.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks help to prove that elements of a sigma-algebra can be represented as unions of elements with empty intersections.
  • Another participant questions the clarity of the initial question and requests more details or symbolic representation.
  • A participant clarifies the task involves showing that for a finite sigma-algebra, there exist elements whose intersections are empty, and that all elements can be represented as unions of these sets.
  • One participant expresses doubt about their understanding and suggests that if two sets belong to a sigma-algebra, their differences also belong to the sigma-algebra, but questions whether this leads to the desired representation.
  • Another participant acknowledges that while the differences satisfy the empty intersection condition, they do not generate the sigma-algebra.
  • A later reply introduces the concept of atoms in a sigma-algebra, suggesting that these minimal elements could help satisfy the conditions of the task.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty about the proof and the conditions required for the representation of sigma-algebra elements. There is no consensus on the approach to take or the correctness of the proposed ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants have not fully resolved the mathematical steps involved in proving the representation of sigma-algebra elements, and there are limitations in the clarity of the initial question and the definitions used.

somebd
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Hello!
How can you proof that all elements of sigma-algebra can be represented as unions of the elements intersection of which is an empty set? I am out of ideas :( Your help would be appreciated!
 
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What are the elements?
 
somebd said:
Hello!
How can you proof that all elements of sigma-algebra can be represented as unions of the elements intersection of which is an empty set? I am out of ideas :( Your help would be appreciated!

I'm afraid that I don't really understand the question... Can you give the exact wording of the question, or perhaps some extra information. Or perhaps write it in symbols could help...
 
Sorry I can't type symbols since I am on my phone :( thanks for your interest!
Basically, the task (which is formulated in language other than English so I'm sorry for possible mistakes) is to show that if sigma-algebra has a finite number of elements, there are elements Ai, i=1,...,n for which Ai intersection with Aj (i and j are indices) is an empty set and that every sigma-algebra element can be represented as unions of these sets Ai. I have shown the first part (about intersection) but stuck with the second.
 
somebd said:
Sorry I can't type symbols since I am on my phone :( thanks for your interest!
Basically, the task (which is formulated in language other than English so I'm sorry for possible mistakes) is to show that if sigma-algebra has a finite number of elements, there are elements Ai, i=1,...,n for which Ai intersection with Aj (i and j are indices) is an empty set and that every sigma-algebra element can be represented as unions of these sets Ai. I have shown the first part (about intersection) but stuck with the second.

Ah, I understand! So you said you have shown the first part. So you found elements Ai for which [tex]A_i\cap A_j=\emptyset[/tex]. So, which elements did you find. We'll see if those elements also satisfy the second condition...
 
Oh well, I am starting to doubt now :D But I just thought that if A and B belong to sigma-alegebra, then so do sets A\B and B\A and their intersection is an empty set...
 
All right, certainly A/B and B/A satisfy the first condition (their intersection being empty), but they don't satisfy the other one (the unions of such elements generating the sigma-algebra).

The trick is looking at the so-called atoms of the algebra. Let [tex]\mathcal{B}[/tex] be your sigma-algebra, then A is called an atom of [tex]\mathcal{B}[/tex] if

[tex]\forall B\in \mathcal{B}:~B\subseteq A~\Rightarrow~B=\emptyset~\text{or}~B=A[/tex].

Thus the atoms are these elements of [tex]\mathcal{B}[/tex] such that only the empty set is contained in them. So in some sense, they are the minimal elements of the sigma-algebra.
Now let [tex]\mathcal{A}[/tex] be the set of all the atoms. Try to prove that this set satisfies your two conditions: the intersection is zero, and they generate the algebra...
 

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