Proving Triviality of pi_1(S^n;e) in Algebraic Topology

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the fundamental group pi_1(S^n;e) in algebraic topology, specifically addressing the notation and implications of basepoints in the context of the n-sphere S^n for n > 1. Participants explore the relationships between different fundamental groups and the necessity of proving isomorphisms between them.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants seek clarification on the notation "pi_1(S^n;e)" and its meaning in relation to the fundamental group.
  • It is noted that pi_1(S^n;e) represents the group of equivalence classes of loops in S^n that start and end at the point e.
  • There is a question about whether pi_1(S^n) is isomorphic to pi_1(S^n;e) and whether this can be assumed without proof.
  • One participant mentions that if a space is path connected, there is no difference between pi_1(X) and pi_1(X; x) for all x in X.
  • Another participant expresses the need to prove the isomorphism between pi_1(X; x) and pi_1(X; e) using basepoint change homomorphism.
  • Concerns are raised about the dependency of pi_1(X) on the basepoint, with examples being requested to illustrate this point.
  • It is pointed out that while pi_1(S^n) is trivial for n ≥ 2, there are cases where pi_1(X; p) is not isomorphic to pi_1(X; q) for different basepoints in connected spaces.
  • One participant suggests that proving S^1 is path connected would show that pi_1(S^1;1) = pi_1(S^1) = Z, indicating that this group is not trivial.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the necessity of proving isomorphisms between fundamental groups with different basepoints. There is a general agreement that pi_1(X) depends on the basepoint, but the extent of this dependency and the implications for specific cases remain contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific propositions and pages from Allen Hatcher's book "Algebraic Topology," indicating that some assumptions and definitions may not be clearly stated or understood. The discussion highlights the distinction between connected and path connected spaces, which may affect the properties of fundamental groups.

bham10246
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Please read the following problem first:

Suppose n > 1 and let S^n be the n-sphere in R^{n+1}. Let e be the unit-coordinate vector (1,0,...,0) on S^n. Prove that the fundamental group pi_1(S^n;e) is the trivial group.


Okay, now my question is what does the notation "pi_1(S^n;e)" mean?

I understand the fundamental group but I don't understand the "semi-colon and then an element"-part.

Thank you! :confused:
 
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As pi_1(S^n) is the group of equivalence classes of loops in S^n, pi_1(S^n;e) is the group of equivalence classes of loops in S^n that start and end at the point e.
 
Thank you so much jimmysnyder for clearing that up for me. I looked through Allen Hatcher's book but it wasn't helpful.

So for our example above, is pi_1(S^n) isomorphic to pi_1(S^n;e)? Do you think I need to show that they are isomorphic or can I assume this as "obvious"?
 
bham10246 said:
I looked through Allen Hatcher's book but it wasn't helpful.
It's in his book entitled "Algebraic Topology". It's hidden on page 26, just above Proposition 1.3 with no indication that it is a definition.

bham10246 said:
So for our example above, is pi_1(S^n) isomorphic to pi_1(S^n;e)? Do you think I need to show that they are isomorphic or can I assume this as "obvious"?
I don't know. But if a space X is path connected, then there is no difference between [itex]\pi_1(X)[/itex] and [itex]\pi_1(X; x)[/itex] for all [itex]x \in X[/itex].
 
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Hi jimmysnyder, I think what was confusing (at first) is that the notation on these practice problems used a semi-colon, instead of a comma. Semi-colon can mean Homology with Coefficients, which I didn't know.

Yes, I agree that there is no difference between [itex]\pi_1(X; x)[/itex] and [itex]\pi_1(X; e)[/itex] but I think I need to prove that these two groups are really isomorphic by using basepoint change homomorphism (Propositon 1.5 page 28 of Hatcher), don't you think so? And after doing that, re-prove that [itex]\pi_1(X; x)=0[/itex] (Prop 1.14 page 35)?

This is a lot of work but I'm not sure what we're allowed to assume.

Also, there's another problem that I came across:

Let [itex]I = [0,1][/itex]. Let [itex]X[/itex] be a space, and let [itex]p[/itex] and [itex]q[/itex] be two points of [itex]X[/itex]. Give an example of a connected space [itex]X[/itex] and points [itex]p[/itex] and [itex]q[/itex] such that [itex]\pi_1(X;p)[/itex] is not isomorphic to [itex]\pi_1(X;q)[/itex].

So [itex]\pi_1(X)[/itex] does depend on the basepoint!
 
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bham10246 said:
So [itex]\pi_1(X)[/itex] does depend on the basepoint!
I don't have time right now to look at it. There is a difference between connected and path connected. This is the red herring rule in mathematics. A red herring is neither red, nor is it a herring.
 
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It is easy to see that for any space X, [itex]\pi_1(X; x) \subset \pi_1(X)[/itex] since every loop that begins and ends at x is a loop. Since by Proposition 1.14 (page 35), [itex]\pi_1(S^n) = 0[/itex] for [itex]n\ge2[/itex], most of the work is done. Note that [itex]S^0[/itex] is not path connected, and [itex]\pi_1(S^0;1) \ne \pi_1(S^0)[/itex]. That is why in the statement of the problem, n > 1.

I don't have a formal proof that [itex]\pi_1(X;x) = \pi_1(X) \ \forall x \in X[/itex] when X is path connected. But informally, given a loop in X, there is a loop that starts at x, goes to the start point of the loop, loops back to the start point and then goes back to x (because X is path connected). so [itex]\pi_1(X) \subset \pi_1(X; x)[/itex].

It seems you have no more to do than to prove that [itex]S^1[/itex] is path connected to show that [itex]\pi_1(S^1;1) = \pi_1(S^1) = Z[/itex]. So that group is not trivial.
 
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Thank you so much for your help!
 

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