Proving Z[x] and Q[x] is not isomorphic

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter cbarker1
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the question of whether the polynomial rings $\mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $\mathbb{Q}[x]$ are isomorphic. Participants explore various approaches to prove this assertion, including the use of mappings and properties of ring structures.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Cbarker1 proposes a mapping $\phi$ defined as $\phi(x^2+1)=\frac{1}{2}x$, questioning its validity in proving the non-isomorphism of the rings.
  • Another participant challenges the utility of $\phi$, noting it is not defined on the whole of $\mathbb{Z}$ and suggests using the properties of Euclidean and principal ideal domains to demonstrate the non-isomorphism.
  • Cbarker1 expresses a limitation in their knowledge, stating they cannot use concepts related to principal ideal domains or Euclidean domains.
  • A later reply points out that if there were an isomorphism $\theta:\mathbb{Z}[x]\to\mathbb{Q}[x]$, it must map $1$ to $1$, leading to a contradiction based on the inability to find an integer polynomial that satisfies certain relations in $\mathbb{Z}[x]$.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the lack of isomorphism implies there is no "correct mapping" between the two rings, highlighting the complexity of establishing isomorphisms.
  • Cbarker1 reiterates their intention to use a proof by contradiction for the problem.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the approach to proving the non-isomorphism of $\mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $\mathbb{Q}[x]$. There is no consensus on a single method or mapping, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention concepts such as principal ideal domains and Euclidean domains, which may not be familiar to all contributors. The discussion reflects varying levels of understanding and knowledge among participants.

cbarker1
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
345
Reaction score
23
Dear Everyone,

What is the correct mapping between the polynomial rings $\mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $\mathbb{Q}[x]$? The function $\phi$ is defined as $\phi(x^2+1)=\frac{1}{2}x$. I want to prove this problem by contradiction.

Thanks,
Cbarker1
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi Cbarker1,

I don't see what is the point of your function $\phi$: it is not even defined on the whole of $\mathbb{Z}$.

In reference to the title of you post, to prove that $\mathbb{Z}[x]$ and $\mathbb{Q}[x]$ are not isomorphic, you could use the fact that $\mathbb{Q}[x]$ is a Euclidean domain, and therefore a principal ideal domain.

On the other hand, $\mathbb{Z}[x]$ is not a principal ideal domain; for example, in $\mathbb{Z}[x]$, the ideal $I =\langle x,2\rangle$ is not principal.
 
I can't use the principal ideal domain. Or Euclidean domain...because I have not learn about it yet.
 
Hi again,

In fact, it is even simpler. If $\theta:\mathbb{Z}[x]\to\mathbb{Q}[x]$ is an isomorphism, then $\theta(1) = 1$, because any ring homomorphism must map $1$ to $1$.

Now, in $\mathbb{Q}[x]$, we have $1 = \dfrac12+\dfrac12$. If $f(x)=\theta^{-1}(\dfrac12)$, we must have $f(x)+f(x) = 1$ in $\mathbb{Z}[x]$, and it is obvious that no integer polynomial satisfies that relation.

We have simply elaborated on the fact that $\mathbb{Z}$ is not isomorphic to $\mathbb{Q}$.
 
The point is that because they are not isomorphic, there is no "correct mapping"! If you wanted to prove that two rings are isomorphic then you would want to find a mapping that is an isomorphism. (But there still might not be a single "correct" one.)
 
I was trying to do a contradiction proof for that problem.
 

Similar threads

Replies
48
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
1K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
1K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K