Pseudo-Riemaniann isometries

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of isotropy in pseudo-Riemannian manifolds, particularly in relation to symmetries and Killing Vector Fields (KVFs). Participants explore definitions of isotropy at a point, comparing different authors' perspectives and the implications for spacetime and its submanifolds.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the definition of isotropy around a point in the context of pseudo-Riemannian manifolds, referencing J. Lee's definition from Riemannian geometry.
  • Another participant notes that Lee's definition applies to Riemannian geometry, which typically does not include a time dimension, suggesting that conventions may differ in pseudo-Riemannian geometry.
  • A third participant provides a link to a definition of isotropy in the semi-Riemannian case, highlighting that non-null tangent vectors of the same length must have an isometry mapping one to the other, which raises interesting implications for vector components.
  • One participant cites S. Carroll's definition of isotropy, emphasizing that it applies to the subgroup of isometries fixing a point and suggesting that isotropy pertains to spacelike hypersurfaces rather than the entire spacetime manifold.
  • Another participant reiterates Carroll's definition and notes that it discusses a specific foliation of spacetime, indicating that different observers may not find their spatial leaves isotropic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the application of isotropy definitions, particularly regarding whether they pertain to the entire spacetime or only to spacelike submanifolds. There is no consensus on the interpretation of isotropy in this context.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various definitions and authors, indicating potential limitations in the applicability of these definitions across different contexts within pseudo-Riemannian geometry.

cianfa72
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TL;DR
About the isometries of pseudo-riemannian manifolds and the definition of manifold isotropic around a point
I'd ask for clarification about the symmetries of (pseudo) Riemannian manifold ##M## of dimension ##n##.

The set of smooth vector fields ##\Gamma(TM)## forms a vector space over ##\mathbb R##; the commutator defined as $$[X,Y](f):=X(Y(f)) - Y(X(f))$$ turns it into a (infinite dimensional) Lie algebra.

Consider the set of continuous isometries, i.e. the flows of Killing Vector Fields w.r.t. the tensor metric ##g##. KVFs form a linear subspace of ##\Gamma (TM)## that closes w.r.t. the commutator, i.e. it is a Lie algebra on its own. As far as I can tell, this linear subspace/Lie algebra over ##\mathbb R## has always finite dimension ##m \geq n##.

That said, consider for instance the case of spherically symmetric Lorentzian metric. It has a specific Lie algebra of rotational KVFs. The latter should be a linear subspace/Lie algebra of the Lie algebra of all KVFs.

Now the question: does the definition of isotropy around a point apply to the entire spacetime as manifold or to its spacelike submanifolds ?

I took as definition of isotropy around a point the one from J. Lee - Introduction to Riemannian manifolds" chapter 3 - Symmetries of Riemannian Manifolds.
 
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Lee's definition of isotropic at a point is in the context of Riemannian Geometry where there isn't a time dimension typically per se so it applies to the entire tangent space at a point. Maybe other authors have different conventions in the context of pseudo-Riemannian geometry.
 
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https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4613275/are-3-dimensional-einstein-manifolds-isotropic has a definition of isotropic in the semi-riemannian case. Basically non-null tangent vectors at a point of the same length must have an isometry that maps one to the other.

This has some interesting cases. For instance a vector whose spatial components are greater than their time components would have to be map into a pure spatial vector with no time component. Locally these are basically the symmetries of the Lorentz group.
 
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jbergman said:
Maybe other authors have different conventions in the context of pseudo-Riemannian geometry.
S .Carroll in his book "Spacetime and geometry" section 8.1 defines a manifold isotropic around a point ##p## if for any ##V,W \in T_pM## there exists an isometry ##\theta_p## in the subgroup of isometries that leave fixed ##p## and ##k \in \mathbb R## such that $$\theta_p^*(W)=kV$$ where ##\theta_p^*## is the pushforward associated to ##\theta_p## evaluated at ##p##.

I believe in this case the relevant manifold ##M## to which the notion of isotropy applies isn't the spacetime as whole but its spacelike hypersurfaces (which are Riemannian manifolds of their own).

jbergman said:
https://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4613275/are-3-dimensional-einstein-manifolds-isotropic has a definition of isotropic in the semi-riemannian case. Basically non-null tangent vectors at a point of the same length must have an isometry that maps one to the other.
In that link I believe the relevant condition isn't on the isometry ##\theta_p## fixing the point ##p## by itself, but on its associated pushforward ##\theta_p## at ##p##. It applies to the same type of non-null vectors in tangent space (i.e. either spacelike or timelike).
 
cianfa72 said:
S .Carroll in his book "Spacetime and geometry" section 8.1 defines a manifold isotropic around a point ##p## if for any ##V,W \in T_pM## there exists an isometry ##\theta_p## in the subgroup of isometries that leave fixed ##p## and ##k \in \mathbb R## such that $$\theta_p^*(W)=kV$$ where ##\theta_p^*## is the pushforward associated to ##\theta_p## evaluated at ##p##.

I believe in this case the relevant manifold ##M## to which the notion of isotropy applies isn't the spacetime as whole but its spacelike hypersurfaces (which are Riemannian manifolds of their own).
I glanced at Carroll and it appears that he is talking about a specific foliation of spacetime with the requirement that the submanifold spatial leaves are isotropic. However, he notes that a different non-comoving observer, i.e., a different foliation would not find their leaves also isotropic.
 
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