Quantized E field, Coulomb Gauge with Interactions

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the quantization of the electromagnetic field, specifically focusing on the Coulomb gauge and its implications when interactions are introduced. Participants explore the definitions and roles of the electric field operator, the Hamiltonian, and the treatment of fields in the interaction picture, touching on both theoretical and mathematical aspects of quantum electrodynamics (QED).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants discuss the implications of defining the electric field operator ##\mathbf{E}## in terms of the Hamiltonian ##H = H_0 + H_1##, questioning whether it should depend on the full Hamiltonian or remain defined as in the free field case.
  • Others argue that the true Hamiltonian ##H## is always the generator of translations, suggesting that the electric field should be expressed in terms of ##H## rather than just ##H_0##.
  • There is mention of the interaction picture in perturbation theory, where field operators evolve according to ##\hat{H}_0##, while states evolve according to the interaction Hamiltonian ##\hat{H}_{\text{int}}##.
  • One participant raises the idea that the free conjugate field might be significant even outside of perturbation theory, drawing parallels to the definitions of momentum states.
  • Another participant notes that electromagnetic-field operators obey the free Maxwell equations, while also acknowledging the complexity introduced by source terms that require renormalization.
  • Discussions include references to canonical formalism, the elimination of certain fields, and the transition to Hamiltonian formalism, with suggestions for further reading on the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of the electric field operator in relation to the Hamiltonian, with no consensus reached on whether it should be defined in terms of the full Hamiltonian or remain as in the free field case. There is also disagreement regarding the implications of the interaction picture and the role of source terms in the equations.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of the interaction picture and the need for renormalization in perturbation theory, as well as the complexities introduced by Haag's theorem and the necessity of advanced techniques for a more accurate treatment.

MisterX
Messages
758
Reaction score
71
The common presentation for free field quantization proceeds with the Lorentz and Coulomb (##\phi = 0, \,\nabla \cdot \mathbf{A} = 0 ##) constraints. Then ##A## can be defined
$$\mathbf{A} \propto \iint \frac{d^3 p}{\sqrt{2\omega_p}}\sum_{\lambda} \Big(e^{i\mathbf{p}\cdot \mathbf{x}}\boldsymbol{\epsilon}_\lambda a(\mathbf{p}, \lambda) +e^{-i\mathbf{p}\cdot \mathbf{x}}\boldsymbol{\epsilon}^*_\lambda a^\dagger (\mathbf{p}, \lambda) \Big) $$
##\mathbf{E} ## could be defined
\begin{align}
\mathbf{E} & = -\nabla\phi -\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\mathbf{A}\\
\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\mathbf{A} &\Leftrightarrow \frac{1}{i\hbar}[\mathbf{A}, H_0] \\
\mathbf{E} &\propto -\frac{1}{i\hbar}[\mathbf{A}, H_0],\, \nabla\phi = 0 \\
H_0 &\propto \int \sum_\lambda d^3 p\, E_{\mathbf{p}}a^\dagger (\mathbf{p}, \lambda) a(\mathbf{p}, \lambda) \\
H_0 &\propto \int d^3 x\, \epsilon_0 \mathbf{E}^2 + \frac{1}{\mu} \mathbf{B}^2
\end{align}
My question is about what happens when ##H = H_0 + H_1##. If we are to define the ##\mathbf{E}## operator as the rate of change of ##\mathbf{A}##, if we are to keep using ##\mathbf{E} = -\frac{\partial}{\partial t}\mathbf{A}## Then I suppose we might argue
$$ \mathbf{E} \propto -\frac{1}{i\hbar}[\mathbf{A}, H_0 + H_1]$$
On the other hand we can argue ##\mathbf{E}## to be an operator independent of ## H## and always has the same form as with the free fields. I am not sure which is correct or what the consequences will be.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The true Hamiltonian H is always the generator of translations, no matter how it is split into free and interacting pieces. Hence in the interacting case, (2) and (3) must feature H, not H_0.
 
Note that for perturbation theory you usually work in the interaction picture, where the time evolution of the field operators (and the observables built with them) is due to ##\hat{H}_0## and that of the states due to ##\hat{H}_{\text{int}}##.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Demystifier
vanhees71 said:
Note that for perturbation theory you usually work in the interaction picture, where the time evolution of the field operators (and the observables built with them) is due to ##\hat{H}_0## and that of the states due to ##\hat{H}_{\text{int}}##.
But then the field operators are also those of the free field!
 
Yes, they are. The Coulomb field occurs in the interaction Hamiltonian. For a quick review, see (in German):

http://theory.gsi.de/~vanhees/faq/coul-gauge/coul-gauge.html
 
I understood how it is typical to work in the interaction picture. By doing this are we are saying, what we mean by E is the free field E and not the true conjugate field of A? If we did not mean this, would we have to expand E in perturbation as well so the commutator remained intact up to the given order? Perhaps I am wrong about this.

Maybe the free conjugate field is is the interesting object even when not using perturbation theory. Maybe it is akin to saying what I mean by momentum states are eigenstates of kinetic energy and not the generalized momentum states. For example ##p_{\text{gen.}} = p_{\text{kinetic}}+qA.##. We have ascribed a particular meaning to ##p_{\text{kinetic}}## that exists regardless of what the Lagrangian is. So I wondering if ##\mathbf{E} ## and ##\mathbf{B} ## could be the same way.

Certainly I should read further on QED if I am to understand if we even can answer this question :woot:
 
Last edited:
Sure, the electromagnetic-field operators (!) obey the free Maxwell equations. In the canonical formalism you start in the Heisenberg picture with the Coulomb-gauge condition
$$\vec{\nabla} \cdot \hat{\vec{A}}=0.$$
Then you realize that the canonical field momentum of ##A^0## vanishes identically, and thus that ##A^0## has to be expressed due to the equation of motion,
$$\Delta A^0=-\rho=-q \bar{\psi} \gamma^0 \psi=-q \psi^{\dagger} \psi,$$
as
$$A^0(t,\vec{x})=\int \mathrm{d}^3 \vec{x} \frac{\rho(t,\vec{x}')}{4 \pi |\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}.$$
This you put into the full action. Then ##A^0## is eliminated, and you can go to the Hamilton formalism in the usual way. You have the fields ##\vec{A}## and it's canonical momenta ##\vec{\Pi}##.

Using this Hamiltonian you switch to the interaction picture and define the perturbative S-matrix elements in the usual way, leading to the Feynman rules in (old-fashioned) Coulomb gauge. Using current conservation, you can easily transform it into the modern form of the Coulomb-gauge Feynman rules. For the free field, the above solution of the field equation leads automatically to ##A^0=0##, i.e., the radiation gauge, as it must be.

For a detailed treatment, see Landau&Lifshitz vol. 4, although I recommend to rather learn the modern path-integral formalism to quantize the em. field in any gauge, including the covariant Lorenz gauge.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: MisterX
vanhees71 said:
the electromagnetic-field operators (!) obey the free Maxwell equations.
Don't they satisfy the Maxwell equations with a source term? The latter needs to be renormalized, hence is not so easy to define.
 
I was referring to the interaction picture, where the field operators obey the free Maxwell equations. Of course, you are right, that the interaction picture doesn't really exist (Haag's theorem) and that one has to renormalize perturbation theory. That's the next step after having derived the "naive" Feynman rules ;-). If you want to do better, you need to use the more complicated Epstein-Glaser approach an "smear the distributions". See, e.g., the book by Scharff, Finite QED.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
898
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 24 ·
Replies
24
Views
3K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
10K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K