Quantum Field Theory: Understanding Path Integrals and Limit Trick

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding path integrals in quantum field theory (QFT), particularly focusing on a specific limit involving an exponential decay factor and its implications in the context of scattering formalism. The original poster references lecture notes and a textbook, seeking clarification on the behavior of certain expressions as limits are taken.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the implications of the limit involving the exponential decay factor and question why it is not simplified to one. They also discuss the relationship between different vacuum states and the treatment of interactions in the scattering formalism.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided insights regarding the decay factor and its significance, while others have raised further questions about the connections between various equations and concepts in the context of QFT. There appears to be an ongoing exploration of the relationships between different formulations and definitions.

Contextual Notes

Participants note specific constraints and assumptions from the textbook, including conditions for convergence and the treatment of potentials in the context of path integrals. There is also mention of the need to verify certain relationships and the implications of using different initial data in the Schrödinger equation.

  • #31
fzero said:
You have a formula for Z[J] so you can work out Z[0]...
Thanks. I've got it now. However, I also have to show that

Z[J] = \displaystyle\sum_{n=0}^\infty \frac{1}{n!} \int d^dx_1 \dots d^dx_n \left( J(x_1) \dots J(x_n) \frac{ \delta^n Z[J]}{\delta J(x_1) \dots \delta J(x_n)} \right)_{J=0}

This seems to be a Taylor expansion of some sort but I can't seem to derive it from the previous expression for Z[J] - any advice?
 
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  • #32
What do you find for \delta Z[J]/\delta J(x_1)?
 
  • #33
fzero said:
What do you find for \delta Z[J]/\delta J(x_1)?

Not completely convinced by what I have here but, \frac{\delta}{\delta J(x_1)} is a differential operator so it will act by chain rule so we get

\frac{ \delta Z[J]}{\delta J(x_1)} = \int [ d \phi(x) ] e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)} \frac{\delta J(x)}{\delta J(x_1)}
\frac{ \delta Z[J]}{\delta J(x_1)} = \int [ d \phi(x) ] e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)} \delta^{(d)}(x-x_1)

Is that right?
 
  • #34
latentcorpse said:
Not completely convinced by what I have here but, \frac{\delta}{\delta J(x_1)} is a differential operator so it will act by chain rule so we get

\frac{ \delta Z[J]}{\delta J(x_1)} = \int [ d \phi(x) ] e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)} \frac{\delta J(x)}{\delta J(x_1)}
\frac{ \delta Z[J]}{\delta J(x_1)} = \int [ d \phi(x) ] e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)} \delta^{(d)}(x-x_1)

Is that right?

You haven't quite used the chain rule, since you didn't include the term coming from the derivative of

e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)},

That's actually the most important part.
 
  • #35
fzero said:
You haven't quite used the chain rule, since you didn't include the term coming from the derivative of

e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)},

That's actually the most important part.

Ah! Missed the integral out. So it should have read

\frac{ \delta Z[J]}{\delta J(x_1)} = \int [ d \phi(x) ] e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)} \times i \int d^dx \phi(x) \delta^{(d)}(x-x_1)=i \int [ d \phi(x) ] \phi(x_1) e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)}

So extrapolating,

\frac{\delta^n Z[J]}{\delta J(x_1) \dots \delta J(x_n)} = i^n \int [d \phi(x) ] \phi(x_1) \dots \phi(x_n) e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)}
 
  • #36
fzero said:
You haven't quite used the chain rule, since you didn't include the term coming from the derivative of

e^{i S[\phi] + i \int d^d x J(x) \phi(x)},

That's actually the most important part.


So, despite having worked all this out for the more copmlicated cases where we have path integrals, I am stumped for the finite dimensional question below

if Z[V] = \int d^Nx e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} - V( \vec{x} )}
where V(0)=0 and if V_{i_1 \dots i_n} = \partial_i_1 \dots \partial_i_n V( \vec{x} )_{ \vec{x}=0} with V_i=V_{ij}=0, use the result
G( \frac{\partial}{\partial b}) F(b)= F( \frac{\partial}{\partial u}) G(u) e^{ub}|_{u=0}
to show that
\frac{Z[V]}{Z[0]}= e^{\frac{1}{2} \frac{\partial}{\partial \vec{x}} \cdot A^{-1} \frac{\partial}{\partial \vec{x}}} e^{-V( \vec{x})}|_{\vec{x}=0}

I can't figure out what to take as F and what to take as G or why?
 
  • #37
latentcorpse said:
So, despite having worked all this out for the more copmlicated cases where we have path integrals, I am stumped for the finite dimensional question below

if Z[V] = \int d^Nx e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} - V( \vec{x} )}
where V(0)=0 and if V_{i_1 \dots i_n} = \partial_i_1 \dots \partial_i_n V( \vec{x} )_{ \vec{x}=0} with V_i=V_{ij}=0, use the result
G( \frac{\partial}{\partial b}) F(b)= F( \frac{\partial}{\partial u}) G(u) e^{ub}|_{u=0}
to show that
\frac{Z[V]}{Z[0]}= e^{\frac{1}{2} \frac{\partial}{\partial \vec{x}} \cdot A^{-1} \frac{\partial}{\partial \vec{x}}} e^{-V( \vec{x})}|_{\vec{x}=0}

I can't figure out what to take as F and what to take as G or why?

As a preliminary result, you'll want to show that

\int d^Nx e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} } \left(x_1^{n_1}\cdots x_N^{n_N} \right) \propto \left. \left( \frac{\partial^{n_1}}{\partial j_1^{n_1}} \cdots \frac{\partial^{n_N}}{\partial j_N^{n_N}} \right) e^{\frac{1}{2} \vec{j} \cdot A^{-1} \vec{j} } \right|_{\vec{j}=0}.

You do this by coupling sources \vec{j} to \vec{x} as in the scalar field theory a few posts back. As a result, we can write

\frac{Z[V]}{Z[0]} =\left. e^{V(\partial/\partial \vec{j})} e^{\frac{1}{2} \vec{j} \cdot A^{-1} \vec{j} }\right|_{\vec{j}=0}.

You're meant to use that change of variables result to simplify this expression, but I haven't worked out the details and probably missed something subtle above to make sure things work cleanly.
 
Last edited:
  • #38
fzero said:
As a preliminary result, you'll want to show that

\int d^Nx e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} } \left(x_1^{n_1}\cdots x_N^{n_N} \right) \propto \left( \frac{\partial^{n_1}}{\partial j_1^{n_1}} \cdots \frac{\partial^{n_N}}{\partial j_N^{n_N}} \right) e^{\frac{1}{2} \vec{j} \cdot A^{-1} \vec{j} }.

You do this by coupling sources \vec{j} to \vec{x} as in the scalar field theory a few posts back. As a result, we can write

\frac{Z[V]}{Z[0]} = e^{V(\partial/\partial \vec{j})} e^{\frac{1}{2} \vec{j} \cdot A^{-1} \vec{j} }.

You're meant to use that change of variables result to simplify this expression, but I haven't worked out the details and probably missed something subtle above to make sure things work cleanly.

This is annoying me because I can see what you want me to do, I just don't know how to do it!

So when I couple a source won't I get

Z[J]= \int d^Nx e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} - V(x) + \vec{j} \cdot \vec{x}}
but now I have this Z[J] floating about and I only want to be working with Z[V] and Z[0]
 
  • #39
There's no need to couple a source inside Z[V]. The connection between the formulas I wrote is entirely made by expanding e^{-V(\vec{x})} as a power series and recognizing the terms inside that power series as things that can be computed from Z[V=0,j].
 
  • #40
fzero said:
There's no need to couple a source inside Z[V]. The connection between the formulas I wrote is entirely made by expanding e^{-V(\vec{x})} as a power series and recognizing the terms inside that power series as things that can be computed from Z[V=0,j].

So you mean

Z[V, \vec{j} = e^{\vec{j} \cdot \vec{x}} \int d^N x e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} - V( \vec{x} )}
That's coupled the source outside of Z[V] right?
 
  • #41
latentcorpse said:
So you mean

Z[V, \vec{j} = e^{\vec{j} \cdot \vec{x}} \int d^N x e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} - V( \vec{x} )}
That's coupled the source outside of Z[V] right?

No that doesn't make any sense because the LHS is independent of \vec{x}. What I means is that

\frac{1}{Z[0]} \int d^Nx e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} } \left(x_1^{n_1}\cdots x_N^{n_N} \right) = \langle x_1^{n_1}\cdots x_N^{n_N} \rangle

and that Z[V] can be expressed as a linear combination of these correlators.
 
  • #42
fzero said:
No that doesn't make any sense because the LHS is independent of \vec{x}. What I means is that

\frac{1}{Z[0]} \int d^Nx e^{-\frac{1}{2} \vec{x} \cdot A \vec{x} } \left(x_1^{n_1}\cdots x_N^{n_N} \right) = \langle x_1^{n_1}\cdots x_N^{n_N} \rangle

and that Z[V] can be expressed as a linear combination of these correlators.

but that doesn't have any j's in it?

I might leave this for a few hours and hopefully when I come back to it I won't be going round in circles!
 
  • #43
latentcorpse said:
but that doesn't have any j's in it?

I might leave this for a few hours and hopefully when I come back to it I won't be going round in circles!

You should spend some time trying to make sense of the formulas in post #37. I corrected them to show that we're meant to set \vec{j}=0 after taking derivatives. Hopefully that clears up some confusion.

I've left out a few steps on purpose for you to fill in, since you've seen the necessary manipulations already. It's not really going to improve your understanding if I tell you how to do every single calculation.
 

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