Quantum tunnel into becoming solid iron

In summary: There will never be a time when the universe is filled with nothing. All these decay and evaporation processes leave behind radiation and matter, which are still moving about. The only thing that changes is that the density and temperature will become lower and lower over time.In summary, the conversation discusses the potential fate of the universe, including the possibility of all matter decaying into iron and eventually forming black holes. The conversation also touches on the concept of time and its philosophical and scientific implications. It is concluded that the universe will never be completely devoid of matter, as decay and evaporation processes will always leave behind some form of radiation and matter.
  • #1
Stephanus
1,316
104
Dear PF Forum,
I have no background in physics :frown:
In http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/end.html
Similarly, if the black dwarfs and planets and the like don't evaporate and their protons don't decay, they may quantum-tunnel into becoming solid iron - as I already mentioned, this takes about 101500 years. And then, if this iron doesn't evaporate and nothing else happens, these balls of iron will eventually quantum-tunnel into becoming black holes, which then Hawking-radiate away. This would take about 10100000000000000000000000000 years - that's 26 zeros.
1. If an Earth size object is left alone (assuming the Sun won't swallow it 2 billions year later). In 101500all of it atoms, oxygen (majority abundant in earth, right), silicon, nitrogen (abundant in atmosphere, right), in short every atom even the heavier ones, uranium, radium, etc... they will become iron?
2. And this iron ball, Earth mass, barely chandrasekar (did I type the name correctly) mass will become black hole?
3. If number 2 is true, how long will it take for this iron ball to become black hole.
4. And black hole will evaporate through Hawking Radiation (to photon?). Is this true that an Earth size black hole to evaporate completely will takes 2^10^26 years?
5. And finally in simple answer, what is quantum tunnel?
 
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  • #2
Stephanus said:
1. If an Earth size object is left alone (assuming the Sun won't swallow it 2 billions year later). In 101500all of it atoms, oxygen (majority abundant in earth, right), silicon, nitrogen (abundant in atmosphere, right), in short every atom even the heavier ones, uranium, radium, etc... they will become iron?
In the absence of other effects, yes. There are good arguments for protons (and neutrons) to decay earlier, within something like 1045 years (see this reference for example). Even if that estimate is many orders of magnitude off it would still mean matter decays much faster than the timescale of those fusion processes.

2. And this iron ball, Earth mass, barely chandrasekar (did I type the name correctly) mass will become black hole?
No. It would become a ball of iron.

4. And black hole will evaporate through Hawking Radiation (to photon?). Is this true that an Earth size black hole to evaporate completely will takes 2^10^26 years?
Much shorter.
5. And finally in simple answer, what is quantum tunnel?
Wikipedia has an article
 
  • #3
mfb said:
Stephanus said:
2. And this iron ball, Earth mass, barely chandrasekar (did I type the name correctly) mass will become black hole?
No. It would become a ball of iron.
But,
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/end.html
And then, if this iron doesn't evaporate and nothing else happens, these balls of iron will eventually quantum-tunnel into becoming black holes, which then Hawking-radiate away.
And in the end, what? What about TIME?
Supposed the observable universe become a single black hole and it evaporates away then...?
If the universe reaches maximum entropy nothing changes, the universe doesn't have energy, matter, motion consist only space (or spacetime?), does time stop?
In SR, we often debate about this 'time' thing.
Time dilate, fasten, anything. No single device can measure time.
Grand father clock depends on gravity, wall clock depends on the power of the lithium battery, caesium atomic clock depends on... how fast the thing travels to a rest observer.
But that's all ridiculous, 1 second is 1 second. In one inertial frame, 1 second is 1 second, whether you have atomic clock or not.

So in the end..
1. Does time stop?
2. [Edit] Is this question scientifically?
3. [Edit] Is this question philosophically?
4. Does the universe still has inertial frame if there's nothing in it. (I don't mean the preffered inertial frame)

Thanks for the answer.
 
  • #4
And then, if this iron doesn't evaporate and nothing else happens, these balls of iron will eventually quantum-tunnel into becoming black holes, which then Hawking-radiate away.
That is the proton decay mechanism I mentioned. It will happen long before larger structures would do that tunneling, if it can happen at all (very likely).
Stephanus said:
And in the end, what? What about TIME?
Time won't care. The universe will become a very boring place - eventually all you have are a few isolated particles without any interactions. There is nothing left that could measure time or display a result - so what?
 
  • #5
mfb said:
That is the proton decay mechanism I mentioned. It will happen long before larger structures would do that tunneling, if it can happen at all (very likely).
Hmmh...
mfb said:
Time won't care. The universe will become a very boring place - eventually all you have are a few isolated particles without any interactions. There is nothing left that could measure time or display a result - so what?
Make sense.

But that's all will take place some 101500 years. And we don't even think about the next 50 years when the oil will run out. Fusion power is still the energy of the "future". And It always be. In the future it's still the energy of the "future".
Actually I just wanted to know that "time" is philosophically or scientifically. But that's too deep question and out of topic.
I have satisfied with your answer. Everything will turn to iron and eventually black hole.
 
  • #6
Stephanus said:
Everything will turn to iron
Probably not, because it decays long before that happens.
 
  • #7
mfb said:
Probably not, because it decays long before that happens.
Do you mean proton decay?
 
  • #9
Stephanus said:
4. Does the universe still has inertial frame if there's nothing in it.

There will never be a time when the universe is filled with nothing. All these decay and evaporation processes leave behind radiation and matter, which are still moving about. The only thing that changes is that the density and temperature will become lower and lower over time.
 
  • #10
What's the matter with the matter? Will they be forever, or disappear because of proton decay? 101500 years if I'm not mistaken?
 
  • #11
1045 years is a better estimate for the proton decay. Actually, it is more like an upper limit - it could be lower, but higher is unlikely.
All atoms will decay, so "matter" in the conventional way won't exist any more. Only photons, electrons, positrons and neutrinos, together with extremely weak gravitational waves, all with a very low density.
 

1. How does quantum tunneling work?

Quantum tunneling is a phenomenon in which a particle can pass through a potential barrier even though it does not have enough energy to do so, according to classical physics. This is possible due to the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics, which allows particles to exist in multiple locations simultaneously.

2. Can particles tunnel into any material?

Yes, particles can potentially tunnel into any material, although the probability of this occurring depends on the thickness and composition of the material. In the case of becoming solid iron, the particles would have to overcome a significant energy barrier to successfully tunnel into the material.

3. How is quantum tunneling used in technology?

Quantum tunneling is an important concept in the development of technologies such as transistors and scanning tunneling microscopes. These technologies rely on the ability of particles to tunnel through barriers, allowing for precise control and manipulation at the quantum level.

4. Is quantum tunneling a rare or common occurrence?

Quantum tunneling is a relatively rare occurrence, as it requires the right conditions for particles to tunnel through a potential barrier. However, it is an important phenomenon in quantum mechanics and has been observed in various experiments.

5. Can quantum tunneling lead to the creation of new materials?

While quantum tunneling itself does not directly lead to the creation of new materials, it is an important concept in understanding the behavior of particles at the quantum level. This understanding can inform the development of new materials and technologies, including the possibility of creating solid iron through quantum tunneling.

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