Quantum Vacuum before the big bang?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of the quantum vacuum and its existence before the Big Bang, exploring theoretical implications and interpretations without relying on a multiverse framework. Participants seek to understand the leading quantum theories regarding the cosmic singularity and the characteristics of the quantum vacuum.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the quantum vacuum, characterized by particles popping in and out of existence, could exist before the Big Bang, while others express uncertainty about this notion.
  • One participant cites Neumaier's view that the quantum vacuum and virtual particles are merely mathematical constructs, questioning their existence outside of mathematics.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of virtual particles being fictitious, arguing that their predictive ability is significant.
  • A different perspective suggests that labeling entities as fictitious moves the discussion into philosophical territory, and emphasizes that vacuum is defined as the ground state.
  • It is noted that the prevailing theory suggests the earliest stages of the Big Bang involved a different vacuum state, which underwent a phase change leading to the current vacuum state.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the quantum vacuum and its implications for the existence before the Big Bang. There is no consensus on whether the quantum vacuum can be considered to exist prior to the Big Bang or the interpretation of virtual particles.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of information regarding conditions before the Big Bang and the dependence on various interpretations of quantum mechanics and vacuum states.

petersaysstuf
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I understand that the quantum vacuum is nothing with particles popping into and out of existence and I also understand that this has been in existence since the big bang but I am curious as to whether this type of nothing could exist before the big bang (not relying on a multiverse). I assume it could but I want some more information. If not what are the leading quantum theories on how the cosmic singularity came about?
 
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petersaysstuf said:
I understand that the quantum vacuum is nothing with particles popping into and out of existence and I also understand that this has been in existence since the big bang but I am curious as to whether this type of nothing could exist before the big bang (not relying on a multiverse). I assume it could but I want some more information. If not what are the leading quantum theories on how the cosmic singularity came about?

According to Neumaier, the quantum vacuum is just mathematics as well as virtual particles which are only mathematical artifacts. Meaning they don't really exist outside of mathematics.
 
Varon said:
According to Neumaier, the quantum vacuum is just mathematics as well as virtual particles which are only mathematical artifacts. Meaning they don't really exist outside of mathematics.

But if that is true then why is their predictive ability unprecedented?
 
When you start calling things fictitious, you've left the realm of physics and mathematics and ventured into philosophy. Virtual particles are different, but also it's a matter of degree. One could argue that all particles are virtual, in the sense that they are en route from one interaction to another, and therefore ever so slightly off the mass shell.

Anyway regarding the Big Bang, we have no information on what came before it, if that even means anything. Vacuum is just defined to be the ground state. The prevailing theory is that the earliest stages of the Big Bang had a different vacuum state, in which spontaneously broken symmetries such as electroweak symmetry were unbroken. As things cooled, a phase change occurred in which this state became unstable and decayed into the vacuum state we have now.
 
What was called fictious?

But thank you for your response.
 

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