Question about Dirac Delta function

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Dirac delta function as presented in the context of electrodynamics, particularly in relation to the equations in Griffiths' textbook. Participants explore the implications of integrating functions involving the delta function and the interpretation of variables in these integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the equality of two expressions involving the Dirac delta function and the function D, suggesting that the integration with respect to primed variables should yield a function of the primed variable.
  • Another participant asserts that the integration with respect to primed variables results in a function evaluated at the unprimed variable, indicating that the delta function acts to "pick out" the value of D at that point.
  • A later reply challenges the interpretation of the delta function's properties, specifically regarding the evenness of the delta function and its implications for the expressions being discussed.
  • Participants discuss the mathematical representation of the delta function and its properties, with one acknowledging an error in their understanding of the delta function's behavior under negation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the interpretation of the integration involving the Dirac delta function and the function D. Multiple viewpoints are presented, with some participants agreeing on the properties of the delta function while others challenge specific interpretations.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the implications of integrating with respect to different variables and the behavior of the Dirac delta function, indicating a need for clarity on these mathematical concepts.

yungman
Messages
5,741
Reaction score
291
In page 555, Appendix B of Intro to electrodynamics by D Griffiths:
\nabla\cdot \vec F=-\nabla^2U=-\frac{1}{4\pi}\int D\nabla^2\left(\frac{1}{\vec{\vartheta}}\right)d\tau'=\int D(\vec r')\delta^3(\vec r-\vec r')d\tau'=D(\vec r)
where ##\;\vec{\vartheta}=\vec r-\vec r'##.

Is it supposed to be equal to ##D(\vec r')## as equation (1.98) in page 50 stated ##\int f(\vec r)\delta(\vec r-\vec a)d\tau'=f(\vec a)##?

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I don't precisely understand, what's your question. The most non-trivial statement is that
\Delta_{\vec{x}} \frac{1}{4 \pi |\vec{x}-\vec{x}'|}=\delta^{(3)}(\vec{x}-\vec{x}').
To prove this, it is most simple to solve for the Green's function of the Laplace operator, i.e.,
\Delta G(\vec{x})=-\delta(\vec{x}).
One way is to use the method of Fourier transformation, i.e., write
G(\vec{x})=\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \frac{\mathrm{d}^3 \vec{k}}{(2 \pi)^3} \tilde{G}(\vec{k})\exp(\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \cdot \vec{x}).
Then you find
\Delta G(\vec{x})=-\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \frac{\mathrm{d}^3 \vec{k}}{(2 \pi)^3}\vec{k}^2 \tilde{G}(\vec{k})\exp(\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \cdot \vec{x}).
On the other hand, the Dirac \delta distribution (it's not a function but a distribution!) has the Fourier representation
\delta^{(3)}(\vec{x})=\int_{\mathbb{R}^3} \frac{\mathrm{d}^3 \vec{k}}{(2 \pi)^3}\exp(\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \cdot \vec{x}).
This implies
\tilde{G}(\vec{k})=\frac{1}{\vec{k}^2}.
Now you have to do the Fourier transform. Unfortunately the integral is not absolutely convergent. This we cure by restricting the integration in momentum space to the ball of radius \Lambda,
G(\vec{x})=\int_{B_{\Lambda}} \frac{\mathrm{d}^3 \vec{k}}{(2 \pi)^3} \frac{\exp(\mathrm{i} \vec{k} \cdot \vec{x})}{\vec{k}^2}.
We introduce spherical coordinates with polar axis in direction of \vec{x}. Then we can do the angular integrals immediately (substituting u=\cos \vartheta)
G(\vec{x})=\frac{1}{4 \pi^2} \int_0^{\Lambda} \mathrm{d} K \int_{-1}^1 \mathrm{d} u \exp(\mathrm{i} K r u)=\frac{1}{2 \pi^2 r} \int_0^{\Lambda} \frac{\sin(k r)}{k}.
Now we can let \Lambda \rightarrow \infty and use the standard integral
\int_0^{\infty} \mathrm{d} k \frac{\sin(k r)}{k}=\frac{\pi}{2}
to finally obtain
G(\vec{x})=\frac{1}{4\pi |\vec{x}|}.
 
yungman said:
In page 555, Appendix B of Intro to electrodynamics by D Griffiths:
\nabla\cdot \vec F=-\nabla^2U=-\frac{1}{4\pi}\int D\nabla^2\left(\frac{1}{\vec{\vartheta}}\right)d\tau'=\int D(\vec r')\delta^3(\vec r-\vec r')d\tau'=D(\vec r)
where ##\;\vec{\vartheta}=\vec r-\vec r'##.

Is it supposed to be equal to ##D(\vec r')## as equation (1.98) in page 50 stated ##\int f(\vec r)\delta(\vec r-\vec a)d\tau'=f(\vec a)##?

Thanks

No. In that last equation, the integration is with respect to the "primed" values and the result is f of the unprimed a. In the equation you are asking about, the integration is again with respect to the "primed" variables and the result is again a function of the unprimed variable.
 
HallsofIvy said:
No. In that last equation, the integration is with respect to the "primed" values and the result is f of the unprimed a. In the equation you are asking about, the integration is again with respect to the "primed" variables and the result is again a function of the unprimed variable.

Thanks for your response. That's exactly my question. I don't understand why using ##D(\vec r)## instead of ##D(\vec r')##?

I don't understand why ##\int D(\vec r')\delta^3(\vec r-\vec r')d\tau'=D(\vec r) ## where integration with respect to the "primed" variables gives a function of the unprimed variable? Is it like this:
\int D(\vec r')\delta^3(\vec r-\vec r')d\tau'=-\int D(\vec r')\delta^3(\vec r'-\vec r)d\tau'=D(\vec r)
as ##\delta(-x)=-\delta(x)\Rightarrow\;\delta^3(\vec r-\vec r')=-\delta^3(\vec r'-\vec r)##

Thanks for your help.
 
Last edited:
Its because the primed r inside of the D is just a tool for you to note that you are integrating that function over all space, while weighting it with the 3-D point function.

Once you do the integral, it takes on the value of the function D evaluated at the point r (unprimed). The function at all other points outside of that the integral is zero because its weight with the Dirac function
 
yungman said:
as ##\delta(-x)=-\delta(x)\Rightarrow\;\delta^3(\vec r-\vec r')=-\delta^3(\vec r'-\vec r)##
how did you got that?Delta function is an even function.What you have written holds for δ'(-x).
 
andrien said:
how did you got that?Delta function is an even function.What you have written holds for δ'(-x).

I double check my notes, I was wrong.
\delta(-x)=\delta(x)\; and \; \delta(\vec r-\vec r')=\delta(\vec r'-\vec r)

Does this work better?
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
5K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K