Question on Jacobian determinant

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    Determinant Jacobian
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of Jacobian determinants in relation to linear transformations. Participants explore whether having a constant Jacobian determinant implies that a transformation is linear, examining both theoretical implications and specific examples.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that linear transformations have constant Jacobian determinants.
  • Others argue that the converse is not necessarily true, citing canonical transformations as examples that preserve volume without being linear.
  • A participant explains that the total derivative of a linear map is itself constant, reinforcing the relationship between linearity and constant Jacobian determinants.
  • A specific example of a transformation, ##u=\ln x## and ##v=xy##, is provided to illustrate a case where the Jacobian determinant is constant (equal to 1) while the transformation is not linear.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that linear transformations have constant Jacobian determinants, but there is disagreement regarding whether a constant Jacobian determinant necessarily implies linearity. Multiple competing views remain on this topic.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes references to specific mathematical properties and examples, but does not resolve the broader implications of these transformations or the completeness of the examples provided.

mnb96
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Hello,

it is true that linear transformations have constant Jacobian determinant.
Is the converse true? That is, if a transformation has constant Jacobian determinant, then is it necessarily linear?
 
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Hello,

Yes, linear transformations have constant Jacobian determinant. You can check this by manual calculation.

The converse is not true. In fact, there is an important class of transformations in physics called canonical transformations (or symplectic transformations) which preserve volume, but which are not, in general, linear.

I wish I had a nice simple example at hand, but perhaps someone else will come along with a good one.
 
The total derivative of a linear map is the linear map itself, and in particular, it's constant. The total derivative of a map is just a linearized version of the map at each point. If it's already linear, nothing happens to it when you take its derivative at a point.

Just so we don't get confused, the baby case is 5x, whose derivative is 5. The latter 5 can be interpreted as the linear map that multiplies stuff by 5, so as a linear transformation, it's the same as the first map. For a linear map from ℝ^2 to ℝ^2, the total derivative is a constant linear map, which is represented by a 2 by 2 matrix. The determinant of that matrix is the Jacobian.
 
Vargo said:
Hello,

Yes, linear transformations have constant Jacobian determinant. You can check this by manual calculation.

The converse is not true. In fact, there is an important class of transformations in physics called canonical transformations (or symplectic transformations) which preserve volume, but which are not, in general, linear.

I wish I had a nice simple example at hand, but perhaps someone else will come along with a good one.
Don't know much about symplectic transformations, but what about the following one:

##u=\ln x##, ##v=xy##, for ##x>0##, ##y>0##.

This is certainly not linear but

##\partial u/\partial x = 1/x##, ##\partial u/\partial y=0##, ##\partial v/\partial x=y##, ##\partial v/\partial y= x##.

The Jacobian determinant is then ##1/x * x -0*y=1## for all ##x,\,y>0##.

So the Jacobian determinant is constant but the transformation is not linear.
 
Hi!
thank you all for the explanations.
Very interesting replies actually!
 
nice example erland, and it shows how to construct infinitely more.
 

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