Question on magnetism: Circular motion of charged particle in a Magnetic Field

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the motion of a charged particle in a magnetic field, specifically addressing a past exam question where the original poster's answer contradicts the provided mark scheme. The subject area includes concepts of magnetism, circular motion, and the application of various hand rules to determine the direction of forces and fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants explore the application of the right hand thumb rule and question its correctness in determining the magnetic field direction. There are discussions about the Lorentz force and its implications for the motion of charged particles. Some participants express confusion over the distinction between the magnetic field produced by the moving charge and the external magnetic field affecting the particle's motion.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants presenting differing views on the correct answer to the exam question. Some suggest that the mark scheme may be incorrect, while others defend the provided answer. There is a mix of reasoning and questioning of assumptions, particularly regarding the application of hand rules and the nature of magnetic fields.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the question may not align with the expected knowledge level for high school students, raising concerns about the complexity of concepts like the Lorentz force law and the application of multiple hand rules. There is also mention of the need for a clear distinction between the magnetic field generated by the charge and the external magnetic field in the context of the problem.

  • #31
physicals said:
here's the deal, if you can prove the answer is B using high school physics then I will send the examiners report
The answer is B whether you use the Lorentz force law or the Fleming rule.
 
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  • #32
With learning must come humility and acceptance as well, i am sorry to have lied about the examiner report, after some proper thinking i have concluded that the right answer is B, using my earlier reasoning for the centripetal force and magnetic force, the magnetic field indeed goes into the page. But were all this confusion really came from is this (Flemings right hand rule here is Lorentz force law) i dont understand the difference between the two:
Fleming's Left Hand Rule and Fleming's Right Hand Rule
 
  • #33
For the left-hand rule, the current is the input and force is the output. That is, it tells you how to calculate the direction of ##\vec F = I \vec l \times \vec B## given a current moving in the direction of ##\vec l## in a field ##\vec B##. For the right-hand rule, the roles are switched. The motion (misleadingly called force in the diagram) is the input, and the current is the output. It tells you how the calculate the direction of ##\vec F = q \vec v \times \vec B##, the force exerted on a charge moving with velocity ##\vec v## in a magnetic field ##\vec B##. The force on the charge may cause the charge to move, producing a current.

Both rules are actually the Lorentz force law, but you have to identify the quantities in the problem correctly.
 
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  • #34
so the magnetic field pushes the particle instead of pull? then how is there circular motion?
 
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  • #35
physicals said:
so the magnetic field pushes the particle instead of pull? then how is there circular motion?
A force is a force. A force of constant magnitude that is always perpendicular to the velocity results in circular motion.
 
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