Question on power plant generators

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the operation of power plant generators, specifically how they increase power output and the relationship between torque, voltage, and current phases. Participants explore both electrical and mechanical aspects, with a focus on the electrical side of generator operation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that increasing power output requires more torque from the prime mover, which affects the torque angle and the phase relationship between voltages from the stator and rotor field.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of steam turbine operation and pressure-drop adjustments in increasing power output, indicating a mechanical perspective.
  • A participant expresses a preference for focusing on the electrical aspects rather than mechanical operations, indicating a desire for more information on the electrical side.
  • One response confirms that the phase of the current is influenced by excitation and load acceptance, and mentions the role of voltage regulators in controlling excitation.
  • Links to animations and previous threads are provided to illustrate concepts related to generator operation and phase relationships.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing interests in the mechanical versus electrical aspects of power generation, and while some points are clarified, there is no consensus on the specifics of how power output is increased or the implications of torque angle adjustments.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions made about constant field or terminal voltage, and the impact of excitation on current phase is not fully explored.

Idea04
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I'm trying to understand exactly how power plant generators increase power output. So I will explain what I think is right.

To increase the power output of a generator more torque from the prime mover is required to increase the torque angle between the voltage impressed on the stator from the grid with the voltage impressed on the stator from the rotor field. As the torque angle increases up to 90 degrees the two voltages will be more in phase and be additive which will result in a larger amount of current produced in the stator. Thus increasing the power output.

Can someone correct me, and what happens with the phases between the voltage and current when the torque angle is increased. Is there still a lagging power factor or does the current align with the sum of the two voltages.

I'm probably wrong in my thinking but some clarification would be very much appreciated.
 
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You might want to spend time studying steam turbines. In power plants, power output can be increased or decreased by adjusting the pressure-drop across the turbine, including auxiliary systems like steam-hoggers and condensers that allow the steam to exit the turbine at lower than atmospheric pressure. Good luck with your studies.
 
Sorry but I'm more interested in the electrical side of it and less on the actual mechanical side of the operation. I have been trying to find info in the internet but so far not successful.
 
You have it pretty nearly right.
The phase of the current is largely affected by the excitation, and what the load will accept.
Power plant generators are all in parallel so can exchange lots of imaginary(out of phase) current.
You haven't said whether you're assuming constant field or constant terminal volts...
The sad truth is the voltage regulator gets into the act and controls excitation.

Here's an animation I found with a quick Google search:
http://www.ece.umn.edu/users/riaz/animations/syncmotpd.html

It's for a motor, but only difference is sign of torque and in-phase current.

We had some interesting threads a couple years ago with a really cool student named Bassalisk.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=538388
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=571174
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=614617
http://www.basler.com/downloads/Design_exc.pdf

May you find them interesting, or a cure for insomnia.Do you have a machinery lab in your school? It is a lot of fun to watch the angle of a shaft with a strobe light synchronized to terminal voltage. And it gives you that "feel" for what is going on.
http://www.ece.umn.edu/users/riaz/animations/smswing.html

old jim
 
Last edited:

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