Question: Options for people who "fail out of" a PhD program

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the options available to individuals who have "failed out of" a PhD program in fields such as physics, mathematics, and engineering. Participants explore the implications of this situation on future academic and career paths, including the potential for pursuing graduate studies in different fields or transitioning to industry roles.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that many students who fail out of a PhD program may find it challenging to re-enter another PhD program, with individual circumstances playing a significant role in this assessment.
  • Others propose that pursuing a master's degree in a different field, such as statistics or engineering, could be a viable option for those who have left a PhD program.
  • A participant mentions that transitioning to industry roles is common among those who do not complete their PhD, and that such individuals may not be worse off than new graduates with a bachelor's degree.
  • Concerns are raised about the difficulty of obtaining letters of recommendation (LORs) for students who have previously dropped out of a graduate program, which could impact their chances of admission to another program.
  • Some argue that the reasons behind a student's failure should be considered, as personal circumstances may influence their ability to succeed in future academic endeavors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the implications of failing out of a PhD program, with no clear consensus on the best path forward. While some agree that transitioning to a different field or industry is a common outcome, others emphasize the complexity of individual situations and the varying potential for re-entering academia.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the lack of specific data on success rates for students who have failed out of PhD programs and the dependence on personal circumstances that may affect future opportunities.

StatGuy2000
Education Advisor
Gold Member
Messages
2,073
Reaction score
1,155
Hi everyone. This scenario does not apply to me, but I've seen a number of threads on Reddit as well as here on PF about those who have "failed out of" a PhD program (be it in physics, math, or some other field), due to not passing the comprehensive exam or not passing their PhD courses.

What I want to ask here is this: what options do these students have? Are these students "doomed" to never be eligible for a PhD program again? Can these students even qualify for a graduate program in a different field? (e.g. for a washout from physics, pursuing, say, a MS in statistics)

Is a STEM career path essentially over for these students?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
About 1/3 of my cohort didn't pass their comprehensive exam (I have a PhD in EE). A significant number got fed up and left after passing the comprehensive exam but before writing a dissertation. So, I would say 1/2 of my cohort didn't finish. They just got jobs (at least the ones I knew enough to keep up with).

Engineering would be a great safe harbor for a "washout" in physics, I would think. It's hard, but probably not as hard and a lot of schools offer coursework master's degrees if the student isn't up to a thesis.
 
StatGuy2000 said:
Hi everyone. This scenario does not apply to me, but I've seen a number of threads on Reddit as well as here on PF about those who have "failed out of" a PhD program (be it in physics, math, or some other field), due to not passing the comprehensive exam or not passing their PhD courses.

What I want to ask here is this: what options do these students have? Are these students "doomed" to never be eligible for a PhD program again? Can these students even qualify for a graduate program in a different field? (e.g. for a washout from physics, pursuing, say, a MS in statistics)

Is a STEM career path essentially over for these students?

I'm afraid that a PhD position would be very difficult to obtain. It's much harder for a failed PhD student to get access to a new PhD position.

One option is to go to Europe though. It is quite easy to do a masters in Europe (much more difficult to do a PhD though). So a MS in physics or statistics would be definitely possible.
 
I agree with Micromass that once you've failed out of a PhD program, it's very difficult to get back into another one. Obviously you have to deal with these on a case-by-case basis though. I think the situation is different for a student who flunks the comprehensive exam because he was also battling cancer at the time compared to someone who too often choses to play video games than study.

So you need to figure out why the person failed and if that problem can be corrected. If it can, there might be some options. If you have a candidate who was really stellar coming into the original PhD program, that weight from the undergrad performance might be enough for some schools to consider that person again, despite a lackluster performance the first time around (again, in combination with some kind of evidence that the previous cycle won't be repeated). On the other hand, a student who just "squeaked in" may have an even harder go of it.

That said, I think in most cases, once a person fails out, the person takes that as a sign that maybe the PhD is not the right path and moves on into a different field. From a professional perspective, I don't think that person is any worse off than a fresh BSc graduate, although there might be some time holes that need to be explained.
 
Choppy said:
That said, I think in most cases, once a person fails out, the person takes that as a sign that maybe the PhD is not the right path and moves on into a different field. From a professional perspective, I don't think that person is any worse off than a fresh BSc graduate, although there might be some time holes that need to be explained.

Arguing along the lines of "I decided that academia was not for me" or "I am more excited about the faster pace of industry" will go a lot farther than simple saying "I couldn't hack it in graduate school".
 
I know of a few cases where students have dropped out, (not sure if voluntary or involuntary for some of them), and got into another graduate school after a few years of working. In some cases, the second grad school was as highly regarded or better than the first one. The hardest obstacle for these students is getting LOR's.
 

Similar threads

Programs Electrical Engineering PhD or Applied Physics PhD?
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
2nd BSc or MSc in physics for physics-PhD in top program in USA
  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
Other How can I fill course requirements for Physics Master's program?
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Admissions Is it harder to get into a top US PhD Program with a German Master's degree?
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
5K
Other HEP-Th vs. HEP-Lat for PhD
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
Questions about my potential PhD advisor
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Admissions Curious about my grad school prospects
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
4K
Programs How Can I Transition from Physics to a Career in Medical Physics?
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K
Programs Difference between an astronomy and astrophysics PhD?
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
PhD Qualifying Exams -- Are they being phased out?
  • · Replies 60 ·
3
Replies
60
Views
8K