Question regarding wave motion

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of wave motion, specifically addressing the behavior of leaves in relation to wave crests and troughs. Participants explore concepts related to standing waves versus moving waves, and how these concepts apply to the motion of objects (leaves) in a wave context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about how multiple leaves can be at different positions (B, C, D) while a crest is at A, questioning the understanding of crests and troughs in wave motion.
  • Another participant suggests that the original perspective may be viewing the wave as a standing wave rather than a moving wave, explaining that in a moving wave, crests and troughs travel in a direction.
  • A participant provides the wave equations for moving waves, indicating the mathematical representation of wave motion.
  • There is a discussion about whether the leaves are moving horizontally or just bobbing up and down, with some participants clarifying that the leaves only move vertically while the wave itself travels horizontally.
  • One participant attempts to visualize the motion by comparing it to bobbing objects on ocean waves, emphasizing that they do not change horizontal position while moving up and down.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the initial understanding of wave motion, with some viewing it as a standing wave and others clarifying it as a moving wave. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the initial confusion about the behavior of the leaves in relation to the wave's motion.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the participants' understanding of wave motion, particularly in distinguishing between standing and moving waves. The discussion includes unresolved questions about the horizontal and vertical motion of the leaves.

toforfiltum
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http://www.elateafrica.org/elate/physics/waves/traqnsversewaves.jpg
Note that :

  • Leaf. A has attained maximum displacement and is about to start going down .
  • Leaves B, C and D are still going up. Each of them will finally attain its maximum displacement and then move downwards to complete the cycle.
  • Leaf E is at the lowest displacement and it is about to start going upwards.
  • Leaves F, G, and H are still going downward and so on.
I have a problem with point 2 and 4. How can leaves B,C and D go up when the crest is at point A? I thought that in a wave, there are only certain points in waves that are crests and troughs, and these are separated by some distance called wavelengths? If so, how could there be so many crests, at leaves B,C, and D, and so many troughs at F, G and H? Could someone point out my fault in my understanding?
 
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You are likely looking at this as a standing wave, but it's a moving wave like and ocean wave. The crests (and troughs) are moving to the right so for example, as the crest marked A moves to the right, the thing bobbling at point B rises.
 
phinds said:
You are likely looking at this as a standing wave, but it's a moving wave like and ocean wave. The crests (and troughs) are moving to the right so for example, as the crest marked A moves to the right, the thing bobbling at point B rises.
So, to help me picture this, the whole wave motion is constantly moving to the right or in other words, the leaves are constantly traveling through the wave to the left?
 
For moving to the right wave equation is ## y(x,t) = A\sin(\omega{t}-kx) ## and the opposite is ## y(x,t) = A\sin(\omega{t}+kx) ##. Make some graphs to see this.
 
toforfiltum said:
So, to help me picture this, the whole wave motion is constantly moving to the right
yes
or in other words, the leaves are constantly traveling through the wave to the left?
no, the leaves are just moving up and down. Do you have trouble picturing how an ocean wave works?
 
phinds said:
yesno, the leaves are just moving up and down. Do you have trouble picturing how an ocean wave works?
Uhm,so the leaves are constantly moving up and down while traveling through the shape of the wave to the left?
 
toforfiltum said:
Uhm,so the leaves are constantly moving up and down while traveling through the shape of the wave to the left?

In this simplified picture the leaves only move up and down. However the pattern of the up and down motion gives rise to a 'wave' that travels to the right. You can look at one of the crests and simply pan your view to the right at the same speed as the crest to follow it without ever having to move your eyes up or down.
 
toforfiltum said:
Uhm,so the leaves are constantly moving up and down while traveling through the shape of the wave to the left?
Have you never seen something bobbling on an ocean wave? It doesn't change horizontal position at all, just bobbles up and down.
 
2ZqLBtF.gif
 
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