Question reguarding the expanding universe

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the expanding universe, specifically addressing the nature of acceleration and deceleration in cosmic expansion as described by the Hubble Sphere. Participants explore various interpretations of these terms within the context of cosmology, including mathematical definitions and historical data on expansion rates.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the universe has been decelerating since the Big Bang, suggesting that the perceived acceleration in expansion is a result of space slowing down in deceleration.
  • Others argue that the Hubble Sphere is growing at a rate that is more than linear but less than exponential, leading to different interpretations of acceleration and deceleration.
  • A participant mentions that the Hubble sphere is shrinking, as it is a function of the rate of expansion, which is slowly decreasing.
  • There is a discussion about the universe expanding fastest at the moment of the Big Bang, with a participant seeking clarification on this point.
  • One participant suggests that while the universe is accelerating in expansion, it is still undergoing deceleration at a slower velocity.
  • Another participant emphasizes the importance of focusing on mathematically defined quantities rather than verbal descriptions, citing historical data on expansion rates over billions of years.
  • Participants discuss the Hubble parameter and its role in defining the expansion rate, noting that recession velocity is proportional to distance.
  • There is a clarification that the growth of the Hubble radius is decelerating, with a limit approaching 17.3 billion light years.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of cosmic expansion, with no consensus on the definitions of acceleration and deceleration or their implications for the Hubble Sphere.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mathematical equations and historical data, indicating that the discussion is limited by the complexity of definitions and the evolving understanding of cosmic expansion rates.

  • #31
cosmos1111 said:
Once the universe is at a constant percentage rate growth, will everything continue to accelerate forever?
As far as we know, yes. Until there is nothing left in the universe. See here for a good description of the far future to the best of our understanding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_of_an_expanding_universe
 
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  • #32
cosmos1111 said:
Once the universe is at a constant percentage rate growth, will everything continue to accelerate forever?
Yes.
If the growth rate H = a'/a really does level out at a constant then each year a distance will increase by a bit more than it increased last year.

Just like if the bank pays a constant interest rate of, say, 1%, your savings will increase by a bit more than they did the previous year.
 
  • #33
As per so called "cosmological constant", lambda, Einstein himself called it "his biggest blunder".
Now it apears that lambda is real after all.
More interesting thing is that lambda may not be a constant at all, only may grow with progress of time.
This could lead to an interesting end of the world scenario, still two dozens of billions years away at least, where everything disentangles and all components (galaxies, then stellar systems, then stars and planets, then chemical molecules, then atoms, then hadrons, then any gravitational singularities (if exist)) would disentangle and any basic components left (photons, leptons, quarks) would inflate away from each other to infinity, to form some bizarre singularity like phenomenon named Big Rip.
Essentially you would end up with situation where each basic building block of matter is surrounded by a separate, "personal" event horizon, so no interaction would be possible.
In such scenario entropy in any point of space would reach maximum possible value, hence time would end.
Last year some evidence indicating possibility of such an outcome was published.
 
Last edited:
  • #34
Martin0001 said:
Last year some evidence indicating possibility of such an outcome was published.

Reference, please?
 
  • #37
Chalnoth said:
That's not evidence. It's a hypothetical model.
Correct.
I should rather use word "speculation".
Evidence should rely on obsevation.
Nevertheless interesting.
 
  • #38
Martin0001 said:
Essentially you would end up with situation where each basic building block of matter is surrounded by a separate, "personal" event horizon, so no interaction would be possible.
In such scenario entropy in any point of space would reach maximum possible value, hence time would end.
Last year some evidence indicating possibility of such an outcome was published.

This is extremely interesting.
If such a circumstance actually occurs, then reality itself may actually stop. (Quantum mechanics explanation)
According to the Copenhagen interpretation, there are no properties of reality if nothing is there to "observe" or interact with it.
Fascinating stuff! Thanks for sharing that
 
  • #39
Martin0001 said:
As per so called "cosmological constant", lambda, Einstein himself called it "his biggest blunder".
Now it apears that lambda is real after all.
More interesting thing is that lambda may not be a constant at all, only may grow with progress of time.
...
... any basic components left (photons, leptons, quarks) would inflate away from each other to infinity, to form some bizarre singularity like phenomenon named Big Rip.
...
Last year some evidence indicating possibility of such an outcome was published.

PeterDonis said:
Reference, please?

Martin0001 said:

Chalnoth said:
That's not evidence. It's a hypothetical model.

Martin0001 said:
Correct.
I should rather use word "speculation".
...
Here's the paper involved in this exchange, so we can understand it better if we want:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1409.4918
A New Approach to Cosmological Bulk Viscosity
Marcelo M. Disconzi, Thomas W. Kephart, Robert J. Scherrer
(Submitted on 17 Sep 2014 (v1), last revised 6 Feb 2015 (this version, v2))
We examine the cosmological consequences of an alternative to the standard expression for bulk viscosity, one which was proposed to avoid the propagation of superluminal signals without the necessity of extending the space of variables of the theory. The Friedmann equation is derived for this case, along with an expression for the effective pressure. We find solutions for the evolution of the density of a viscous component, which differs markedly from the case of conventional Eckart theory; our model evolves toward late-time phantom-like behavior with a future singularity. Entropy production is addressed, and some similarities and differences to approaches based on the Mueller-Israel-Stewart theory are discussed.
6 pages. To appear in Physical Review D
 
  • #40
quantumphysics said:
According to the Copenhagen interpretation, there are no properties of reality if nothing is there to "observe" or interact with it.
We've observed wavefunction collapse without directly observing the wavefunction being collapsed:
http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.77.4887

So no, observers definitely aren't required. Collapse occurs as a result of interactions between systems.
 
  • #41
Chalnoth said:
We've observed wavefunction collapse without directly observing the wavefunction being collapsed:
http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.77.4887

So no, observers definitely aren't required. Collapse occurs as a result of interactions between systems.
But if you have only a single particle within each event horizon, how any interaction could be possible?
 
  • #42
Martin0001 said:
But if you have only a single particle within each event horizon, how any interaction could be possible?
Assuming a cosmological constant, there would still be interaction with the Hawking radiation produced by the cosmological horizon.

That probably wouldn't be relevant, though. Such a system would likely be in a pseudo-equilibrium state, where entropy within the horizon is maximized.
 
  • #43
Chalnoth said:
That probably wouldn't be relevant, though.

It would if you're trying to understand why "interaction" is still occurring even though there is only one "particle" within the horizon.
 

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