Questions about the higgs boson.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around various questions and confusions regarding the Higgs boson, its role in particle physics, and its relationship with gravity and mass. Topics include theoretical explanations, the nature of virtual particles, and the properties of the Higgs field.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how particle physics accounts for the weakness of gravity, noting that the standard model does not include gravity and suggesting extensions like extradimensions.
  • There is a discussion about virtual bosons and their existence, with some arguing that they can appear and disappear at different times, while others express confusion about their nature and role in particle interactions.
  • Participants inquire why the Higgs boson interacts with some particles but not others, with references to quantum field theory and the coupling of mass to the weak interaction.
  • Questions arise regarding the stability of the Higgs boson compared to light, with some noting that the Higgs boson has decay modes while photons do not.
  • There is confusion about how the Higgs boson can have mass if it is the generator of mass, with discussions on self-interaction and the classical treatment of its mass.
  • Participants question the shape of the potential energy field associated with the Higgs boson, specifically why it must be "Mexican hat"-like rather than uniform.
  • Some seek clarification on how virtual Higgs bosons exchange between particles, particularly in the context of gravitational attraction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the nature of the Higgs boson, its relationship to gravity, and the concept of virtual particles. There is no consensus on several key questions, particularly regarding the role of the Higgs boson in gravity and the interpretation of virtual particles.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific definitions and interpretations of concepts like "real" particles and the nature of virtual particles. The discussion also highlights limitations in understanding the interactions and properties of the Higgs boson and its field.

Jarfi
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These are things about the higgs boson that am confused with:

1: how does particle physics explain the weakness of gravity, since higgs is just another force carrier like any other, why is it so weak?

2: how do virtual bosons, popping in and out of existence, exchange between two particles if they only exist momentarily when exchanging between particles means moving a distance and unless they move infinetely fast they take time moving this distance, if they take time then they live for more then an instance and then they are not virtual bosons.

3: Why do higgs boson only stick to some particles and not others? are there any shared common features of all massless particles, do all particles with mass have one same thing that allows them to excite the higgs field.

4: Why exactly is a higgs boson unstable but light is not?

5: HOW does the higgs boson have mass when it is the generator of mass, I mean.. you could say it has this amount of energy but if it's just the creator of mass then how can it have mass. It's sort of like saying photons have charge, but they don't they are just oscillations in the charge field.

6: why exactly does the potential energy field have to be "mexical hat"-like why can't it just be uniform and the (potential energy)/(higgs boson) be waves in the higgs field

7: How exactly do two virtual higgs bosons "exchange" between particles.

If anybody could address some of those quesitons and maybe explain what exactly is happening with virtual particles and the higgs field it'd be nice, altough I realize not much logic may be behind this other than pure maths.
 
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1: how does particle physics explain the weakness of gravity
The standard model does not include gravity at all. Some possible extensions (like extradimensions) can provide an explanation why gravity looks weak to us. This has nothing to do with the Higgs boson.
2: how do virtual bosons, popping in and out of existence, exchange between two particles if they only exist momentarily when exchanging between particles means moving a distance and unless they move infinetely fast they take time moving this distance, if they take time then they live for more then an instance and then they are not virtual bosons.
They can appear and disappear at different times, which could be seen as a finite "lifetime". But keep in mind that virtual particles are virtual: They are a handy tool for calculations, and to draw some processes with pen and paper. They are not real particles flying around.
3: Why do higgs boson only stick to some particles and not others?
Quantum field theory. There are explanations in the particle physics forum, if you are interested in details.
are there any shared common features of all massless particles, do all particles with mass have one same thing that allows them to excite the higgs field.
All particles which get a mass from the Higgs boson couple to the weak interaction (W and Z bosons).
4: Why exactly is a higgs boson unstable but light is not?
There are possible decay modes for the Higgs boson, but not for photons.
5: HOW does the higgs boson have mass when it is the generator of mass
Self-interaction: The interaction with the Higgs field gives a mass to the Higgs boson. In addition, it is the only particle which can have a mass in the classical way - you can just write its mass into the theory.
6: why exactly does the potential energy field have to be "mexical hat"-like why can't it just be uniform and the (potential energy)/(higgs boson) be waves in the higgs field
The field needs a non-zero vacuum expectation value, and it has to break the electroweak symmetry.
7: How exactly do two virtual higgs bosons "exchange" between particles.
?
 
Also look at the bottom of this page, where you will find links to earlier threads with similar titles.
 
mfb said:
The standard model does not include gravity at all. Some possible extensions (like extradimensions) can provide an explanation why gravity looks weak to us. This has nothing to do with the Higgs boson.

They can appear and disappear at different times, which could be seen as a finite "lifetime". But keep in mind that virtual particles are virtual: They are a handy tool for calculations, and to draw some processes with pen and paper. They are not real particles flying around.

Quantum field theory. There are explanations in the particle physics forum, if you are interested in details.

All particles which get a mass from the Higgs boson couple to the weak interaction (W and Z bosons).

There are possible decay modes for the Higgs boson, but not for photons.

Self-interaction: The interaction with the Higgs field gives a mass to the Higgs boson. In addition, it is the only particle which can have a mass in the classical way - you can just write its mass into the theory.

The field needs a non-zero vacuum expectation value, and it has to break the electroweak symmetry.

?

1 Re: what ? the standard model does not include gravity? so the higgs boson being a force carrier of gravity and the higgs field being gravity is not gravity?

2 Re: So, are they real or are they not? If they are not actually there... what is going on?

3 Re: Thanks.

4 Re: Interesting.

5 Re: Why? what affects weather and how a particle will decay? and it's stability

6: Re: I thought the higgs boson was an interaction of the field itself, how can an interaction of a field interacting with itself.

7 Re: Will have to study more of such.

8 Re: What I meant was, how do two particles exchange a virtual higgs boson? since that's apparently how the gravitational attraction occurs.


Thanks for the answers.
 
Jarfi said:
1 Re: what ? the standard model does not include gravity? so the higgs boson being a force carrier of gravity and the higgs field being gravity is not gravity?


The Higgs is not the force carrier of gravity. It imparts mass to some of the elementary particles; that's it. Gravity is not mediated by particles exchanging Higgs bosons.
 
LastOneStanding said:
The Higgs is not the force carrier of gravity. It imparts mass to some of the elementary particles; that's it. Gravity is not mediated by particles exchanging Higgs bosons.

so why do the particles NEED the higgs boson to have mass?

the higgs boson is not the force carrier of gravity? I've read that all over :( it's like this particle is so fuzzy, bad explanations all around the interwebs.
 
LastOneStanding said:
The Higgs is not the force carrier of gravity. It imparts mass to some of the elementary particles; that's it. Gravity is not mediated by particles exchanging Higgs bosons.

So the higgs boson is just a thing in the particles that allows them to excite the higgs field. So is a force carrier for gravity not expected?
 
The higgs field (not the boson) gives particles their inertial mass, and special relativity (this is included in the SM) relates this to an energy (the energy the particles have at rest). There is absolutely no gravity involved.
2 Re: So, are they real or are they not? If they are not actually there... what is going on?
Depends on your definition of "real". Virtual particles are part of our model to describe physics. In theory, you can work without the notion of virtual particles - it is just much more complicated.
5 Re: Why? what affects weather and how a particle will decay? and it's stability
The possible decay modes. I think this was related to 4.?
The higgs boson has a mass, it can decay to two particles with less mass and conserve energy and momentum in the decay. The photon has no mass, and there are no particles it can decay into.
6: Re: I thought the higgs boson was an interaction of the field itself, how can an interaction of a field interacting with itself.
The Higgs boson is an excitation of the Higgs field. An excitation of the Higgs field is part of the Higgs field - its interaction with the Higgs field is not so surprising, I think.
8 Re: What I meant was, how do two particles exchange a virtual higgs boson? since that's apparently how the gravitational attraction occurs.
No, it is not.
Particles can exchange virtual Higgs bosons (not a very interesting process I think), but again, that is just our model - and as it is an elementary interaction, there is no deeper layer of "how". It just happens.
so why do the particles NEED the higgs boson to have mass?
Massive particles in quantum field theory without the Higgs mechanism do not fit to our observations.

So is a force carrier for gravity not expected?
This would be called graviton.
 

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