Questions about the structure of dark matter

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the structure and behavior of dark matter, particularly its interaction with mass and its implications for the fabric of space-time. Participants explore theoretical models and conceptual frameworks related to dark matter, general relativity, and the expansion of the universe.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that dark matter could behave like a very dense liquid, proposing that celestial bodies might be "sinking" into this liquid due to the curvature of space-time.
  • Another participant asserts that dark matter is defined as the unseen mass interacting with visible mass, emphasizing that it behaves gravitationally like ordinary matter.
  • Concerns are raised about the phrase "fabric of space-time," with multiple participants arguing that it is a metaphor that can lead to misunderstandings of general relativity.
  • A participant references a video that illustrates gravitational attraction in curved space-time, suggesting it as a resource for better understanding the concepts discussed.
  • One participant expresses a desire to learn more about relativity, indicating a willingness to engage with more rigorous educational materials.
  • A later reply indicates a shift in understanding, acknowledging that certain assumptions about dark matter may not be valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of dark matter and the interpretation of general relativity. There is no consensus on the initial assumptions regarding dark matter's behavior, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of popular science interpretations of relativity and cosmology, suggesting that these can vary in accuracy and applicability. The discussion reflects a range of understandings and assumptions about dark matter and its properties.

untilthecern
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If we assume that dark matter interacts with mass, according to Einstein's general theory of relativity, the presence of mass will bend the fabric of space-time and thus dark matter into curves. So, can we suggest that this matter, which occupies a large majority of space, behaves like a very dense liquid? Because if we think of the space-time index as three-dimensional, it would appear as if planets were sinking in this liquid. Accordingly, wouldn't it also possess the properties of gases? Couldn't we propose a statement such as: ‘If the entire universe is constantly expanding and this gas occupies its volume, a distance will arise between celestial bodies, and this distance will increase logarithmically as the observer's distance increases’?
 
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untilthecern said:
If we assume that dark matter interacts with mass,
There’s no “if” here, dark matter is defined to be the stuff we haven’t seen yet that is interacting with the mass we have seen. It differs from ordinary matter only in that we haven’t seen it yet; in particular it has mass and behaves gravitationally just like any other matter.
according to Einstein's general theory of relativity, the presence of mass will bend the fabric of space-time
Please please try to forget that you ever heard that phrase “fabric of space-time”. It is a metaphor, not an accurate description of the theory, and pretty much inevitably leads to misunderstanding. For example
…and this bends dark matter into curves.
That is not what is going on.
To see what is going on, you might try the video below (by our member @A.T.) which shows how gravitational attraction is the result of initially parallel lines in curved spacetime meeting. Similarly, the overall expansion of the universe is the result of initially parallel lines diverging, analogous to how two people walking towards the equator on initially parallel straight paths will find the distance between them increasing.


If you are really serious about this stuff you will want to learn relativity for real. Taylor and Wheeler’s “Spacetime Physics” is free online and what I first learned from in my last year of high school.
 
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Nugatory said:
Please please try to forget that you ever heard that phrase “fabric of space-time”. It is a metaphor, not an accurate description of the theory, and pretty much inevitably leads to misunderstanding.
I'd go as far as to say forget any popsci you've read around relativity and cosmology. Far too much of it varies between "broadly illustrative", "correct but only in narrow circumstances", and "just plain wrong".
 
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Nugatory said:
There’s no “if” here, dark matter is defined to be the stuff we haven’t seen yet that is interacting with the mass we have seen. It differs from ordinary matter only in that we haven’t seen it yet; in particular it has mass and behaves gravitationally just like any other matter.Please please try to forget that you ever heard that phrase “fabric of space-time”. It is a metaphor, not an accurate description of the theory, and pretty much inevitably leads to misunderstanding. For exampleThat is not what is going on.
To see what is going on, you might try the video below (by our member @A.T.) which shows how gravitational attraction is the result of initially parallel lines in curved spacetime meeting. Similarly, the overall expansion of the universe is the result of initially parallel lines diverging, analogous to how two people walking towards the equator on initially parallel straight paths will find the distance between them increasing.


If you are really serious about this stuff you will want to learn relativity for real. Taylor and Wheeler’s “Spacetime Physics” is free online and what I first learned from in my last year of high school.

I'll check the course you mentioned, thanks
 
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So we can't assume the thing like that. got it
 
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