Questions on functions and supremums and infimums.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around properties of functions, specifically regarding the composition of functions and their inverses, as well as the boundedness and extremal values (supremum and infimum) of a specific trigonometric function. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical reasoning, and proofs related to these concepts.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asserts that if the composition of two functions \( g \) and \( f \) is the identity function, then \( g \) is the inverse of \( f \), and discusses the conditions under which \( f \) can be onto and one-to-one.
  • Another participant provides a counterexample to the claim that \( g \) must be the inverse of \( f \), suggesting that \( f \) can be one-to-one without being onto.
  • Participants discuss the boundedness of the function \( f(x) = \cos(x) + \sqrt{3}\sin(x) \) and propose that it is bounded between \(-1 - \sqrt{3}\) and \(1 + \sqrt{3}\), with a supremum of 2.
  • There is a debate about the validity of assuming \( \cos(x) > 0 \) in the proof for the supremum, with one participant questioning this assumption.
  • Another participant suggests using the derivative to find maximum and minimum values, and introduces the concept of the root mean square of the coefficients in the function.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about their reasoning and seeks validation from others regarding their conclusions about the properties of the functions discussed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the properties of functions and the validity of certain assumptions in proofs. There is no consensus on whether \( g \) is the inverse of \( f \) or on the assumptions made regarding the boundedness of the function. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the approaches taken by participants.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions made by participants, such as the positivity of \( \cos(x) \), are not universally accepted, leading to potential limitations in the proofs presented. The discussion also highlights the complexity of determining the properties of functions and their inverses.

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1)let g:B->A f:A->B be functions, and gof is the identity function, prove/disprove the following:
g=f^-1;f is onto;f is 1-1;g is onto;g is 1-1.
iv'e showed that the first the third and the last are correct, and the others are wrong, am i right?

2)prove that f(x)=cos(x)+sqrt(3)sin(x) is a bounded function and find its supremum and infimum.

well to prove that it's a bounded function was easy, it's bounded by:
-1-sqrt(3)<=f(x)<=1+sqrt(3)
now to find the supremum and infimum, the supremum is 2, and i have proven it this way:
first we need to show that it's an upper bound, i.e cos(x)+sqrt(3)sinx<=2
we have 2-sqrt(3)sin(x)>=1 and we can suppose that cos(x) is positive, bacause the upper bound should be greater also from the least value of f(x) which can be obtained when cos(x)<0, so we can suppose that cos(x)>0 (is this assumption valid?) then we have sqrt(1-sin^2x)<=2-sqrt(3)sin(x) 1-sin^2x<=4+3sin^2x-4sqrt(3)sin(x)
4sin^2x-4sqrt(3)sin(x)+3>=0
2sin^2x-sqrt3)^2>=0 which is ofcourse correct.

now we need to show that for every c>=f(x) 2<c, (in order to show that's least upper bound), so we suppose that c<2, then c>=cos(x)+sqrt(3)sin(x)
again we assume cos(x)>0 so we have c^2-2csqrt(3)sin(x)+3sin^2(x)>=1-sin^2x 4sin^2x-2sqrt3sin(x)+c^2-1>=0 [/tex]\delta=4*3c-16c^2+16=-4c^2+16<=0[/tex] so we have (2-c)(2+c)<=0 c>=2 or c<=-2
but this clearly contradicts our assumptions, is my appraoch correct?


p.s
just something I am interested about, how do you prove that 0.123456789101112... (all the natural numbers) is irrational?
 
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It is known that the decimal expansion of any rational number is eventually repeating.
 
what about the other two questions?
 
loop quantum gravity said:
1)let g:B->A f:A->B be functions, and gof is the identity function, prove/disprove the following:
g=f^-1;f is onto;f is 1-1;g is onto;g is 1-1.
iv'e showed that the first the third and the last are correct, and the others are wrong, am i right?
In order that a function HAVE an inverse, it must be both 1-1 and onto, and its inverse must be both 1-1 and onto. However, consider this example: A= {a, b}, B= {x,y,z} . f(a)= x, f(b)= y. g(x)= a, g(y)= b, g(z)= b. then gof(a)= g(x)= a, gof(b)= g(y)= b so gof is the identity function. Is g= f-1? What about the other questions?

2)prove that f(x)=cos(x)+sqrt(3)sin(x) is a bounded function and find its supremum and infimum.

well to prove that it's a bounded function was easy, it's bounded by:
-1-sqrt(3)<=f(x)<=1+sqrt(3)
now to find the supremum and infimum, the supremum is 2, and i have proven it this way:
first we need to show that it's an upper bound, i.e cos(x)+sqrt(3)sinx<=2
we have 2-sqrt(3)sin(x)>=1 and we can suppose that cos(x) is positive, bacause the upper bound should be greater also from the least value of f(x) which can be obtained when cos(x)<0, so we can suppose that cos(x)>0 (is this assumption valid?) then we have sqrt(1-sin^2x)<=2-sqrt(3)sin(x) 1-sin^2x<=4+3sin^2x-4sqrt(3)sin(x)
4sin^2x-4sqrt(3)sin(x)+3>=0
2sin^2x-sqrt3)^2>=0 which is ofcourse correct.

now we need to show that for every c>=f(x) 2<c, (in order to show that's least upper bound), so we suppose that c<2, then c>=cos(x)+sqrt(3)sin(x)
again we assume cos(x)>0 so we have c^2-2csqrt(3)sin(x)+3sin^2(x)>=1-sin^2x 4sin^2x-2sqrt3sin(x)+c^2-1>=0 [/tex]\delta=4*3c-16c^2+16=-4c^2+16<=0[/tex] so we have (2-c)(2+c)<=0 c>=2 or c<=-2
but this clearly contradicts our assumptions, is my appraoch correct?
Actually, in this case, the sup and inf are the maximum and minimum values so taking the derivative and setting it equal to 0 is a good start.
You can also note that the "root mean square" of the coefficients, 1 and [itex]\sqrt{3}[/itex] is [itex]\sqrt{1+ 3}= 2[/itex]. Factoring out a 2, you have [itex]f(x)= 2(\frac{1}{2}cos(x)+ \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}sin(x))[/itex]. Now use the fact that sin(x+ a)= sin(a)cos(x)+ cos(a)sin(x). Here, we have [itex]sin(a)= \frac{1}{2}[/itex] and [itex]cos(a)= \frac{\sqrt{3}}{2}[/itex] so [itex]a= \frac{\pi}{6}[/itex].
[tex]f(x)= 2 sin(x+ \frac{\pi}{6})[/tex]
Aren't the max and min (sup and inf) of that obvious?
 
In order that a function HAVE an inverse, it must be both 1-1 and onto, and its inverse must be both 1-1 and onto. However, consider this example: A= {a, b}, B= {x,y,z} . f(a)= x, f(b)= y. g(x)= a, g(y)= b, g(z)= b. then gof(a)= g(x)= a, gof(b)= g(y)= b so gof is the identity function. Is g= f-1? What about the other questions?
no bacuse we don't have a reverse image for f(g(z)) doesn't equal z.
so it means we don't have it so still i think that f isn't onto, but it's 1-1, cause:
if f(x1)=y1=y2=f(x2) in B, then x1=g(f(x1))=g(f(x2))=x2.
from the example you showed clearly g isn't one to one, but it's onto, so i guess i need to prove that g is onto.
then for every x in A there exists y in B such that g(y)=x when y=f(x).
thanks, halls.
 
halls, am i right in what i wrote?
im having second thoughts about it. (-:
 

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