Radial Excess Calc: GR, 4πGρ & R00

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical procedure for deriving the expression ##\delta r = \frac{GM}{3c^2}## from the equation ##\nabla^2 V = R_{00} = 4\pi G\rho##, where ##\nabla^2 V## represents the volume contraction of a spherical mass with density ##\rho##, and ##R_{00}## is the 00 component of the Ricci tensor. Participants explore concepts related to general relativity, specifically the metrics associated with spherically symmetric mass distributions.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks for the mathematical procedure to derive a specific expression related to gravitational effects.
  • Another participant introduces the concept of the Schwarzschild coordinate and the need to consider the metric of the interior solution for a spherically symmetric perfect fluid.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the metric of a perfect fluid compared to the Schwarzschild metric, which is noted as a vacuum solution.
  • A participant shares a link to Wikipedia for further information on the interior Schwarzschild metric and provides the ##g_{rr}## component necessary for integration.
  • One participant indicates they have evaluated the integral but struggles with the subtraction between the Euclidean radius and the physical distance due to the curvature of space.
  • Another participant suggests a standard integral form and mentions that the initial result may not be exact unless higher-order terms are considered.
  • A participant reflects on their calculations and expresses confusion regarding the relationship between the physical distance and the Euclidean radius, questioning the implications of their results.
  • One participant requests clarification on their work and provides a detailed expression for the integral, indicating the expected outcome.
  • A later reply acknowledges a previous error in calculations and expresses gratitude for the assistance received.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and uncertainty, particularly regarding the metrics involved and the interpretation of results. Some participants correct or refine earlier claims, but no consensus is reached on the implications of the derived expressions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the metrics and the nature of the mass distribution, as well as unresolved steps in the mathematical derivations.

Thytanium
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Which is the mathematical procedure to obtain ##\delta r = \frac{GM}{3c^2}## from ##\nabla^2 V = R_{00} = 4\pi G\rho## where ##\nabla^2 V## is volume contraction of a spherical mass of density ##\rho## and ##R_{00}## is the 00 component of Ricci tensor ##R_{ij}##?
 
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Assuming you mean the difference between the Schwarzschild coordinate ##r_g## at the surface and the physical distance ##\displaystyle{\int_0^{r_g}} \sqrt{g_{rr}} dr## for a spherical mass distribution of constant density...

...first of all, do you know what the metric of the interior solution for a spherically symmetric, perfect fluid is?
 
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I don't know the metric of the interior solution for a spherically symmetric perfect fluid.
 
Excuse me Ergospherical. Thanks for answering. Ergospherical.
 
Excuse me again. I know the metric of Schwarzschild. This is the metric of perfect fluid?
 
Thytanium said:
Excuse me again. I know the metric of Schwarzschild. This is the metric of perfect fluid?
The Schwarzschild metric is the spherically symmetric vacuum solution. The stress energy tensor is zero.
 
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OK. Thanks for answering Orodruin.
 
I mean, you can find it on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interior_Schwarzschild_metric
(there are derivations in Wald, etc.)

Specifically, with a (-+++) signature, the ##rr## component is ##g_{rr} = \left( 1- \dfrac{2GMr^2}{c^2 r_g^3} \right)^{-1}##. That's all you need to do the integration :smile:
 
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Thanks Ergospherical. Very thankful,
 
  • #10
:smile::smile:
 
  • #11
Good day friends. Thankful for your immense help because I already evaluated the integral and obtained the result of the physical distance. But now I have a drawback and it is that I do not know how to do the subtraction between the Euclidean radius and the physical distance that I calculate. I think it is not a simple subtraction because it is a curved space within the mass sphere M. I would appreciate your help again and excuse my ignorance about it.
 
  • #12
Did you already compute the integral? It is a standard one of the form ##\int (1-\alpha r^2)^{-\frac{1}{2}} dr## which you can do with a trigonometric substitution.

The result you gave doesn't look exact, although is correct if you truncate the power series for ##\arcsin##...
 
  • #13
Well. I am going to do the serial development of the integration result and then I am going to try to do the subtraction: ##r_{g}## - physical distance. The physical distance is the result of the series expansion of what I obtained by solving the integral and ##r_{g}## is the Euclidean radius. Ok.
 
  • #14
Thakn you. Grateful Ergosferical. :smile: :smile:
 
  • #15
The physical distance gives me exactly ##r_{g}## after the calculations with the series expansion of the arcsin (z), leaving the first term "z" and neglecting the other higher order terms of the series. Due to this result I think I must have a misconception because the Euclidean radius should not be ##r_{g}## since the radial excess would give me "0". Please, if you can clarify these doubts, I thank you very much. And excuse my ignorance please.
 
  • #16
Can you write out your work? You should end up with\begin{align*}
\int_0^{r_g} \sqrt{g_{rr}} dr &= \sqrt{\dfrac{c^2 r_g^3}{2GM}} \arcsin{\left(r_g \sqrt{\frac{2GM}{c^2 r_g^3}}\right)} = r_g + \dfrac{GM}{3c^2} + O(r_g^{-1})
\end{align*}
 
  • #17
The result I made of my integration was correct but I had not included the second term of the series. Because of that I was wrong. A thousand apologies friend. Very grateful to you Ergospherical. Eternally grateful. I wish you a very good day. That is the correct calculation. :smile::smile::smile::smile:
 

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