Radiation Far Zone Expansion - 65 Characters

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expansion of scalar and vector potentials in the context of electromagnetic radiation, particularly focusing on the far zone approximation and the implications of these expansions. Participants explore the mathematical formulations derived from Maxwell's equations and the Lorenz gauge, addressing both theoretical and conceptual aspects of the potentials.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants derive the scalar and vector potentials using Green's functions and discuss their dependence on charge and current densities.
  • There is a proposal that the first term in the scalar potential expansion resembles a monopole wave, but this is challenged by references to established texts that state the monopole part must be static.
  • One participant notes a potential error in the reference text regarding the missing factor of \(1/r\) but asserts it does not affect the static nature of the monopole potential.
  • Participants discuss the symmetry observed between terms in the scalar and vector expansions, questioning whether this symmetry holds for all paired terms and how higher-order terms are structured.
  • There is a clarification that the first term of the scalar expansion corresponds to a static monopolar potential, despite the presence of oscillating terms.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the oscillating term does not negate the static nature of the monopole potential, raising further questions about the implications of these terms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the scalar potential expansion, particularly regarding the nature of the monopole term and its implications. While some agree on the static nature of the monopole potential, others question the consistency of this with the oscillating terms present in the equations. The discussion remains unresolved on several points, particularly concerning the implications of the expansions and the nature of the terms involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific sections of established texts, indicating that interpretations may depend on the definitions and assumptions made within those contexts. The discussion also highlights the complexity of the multipole expansion and its relation to the symmetry properties of electrodynamics.

decerto
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So using the lorenz gauge and maxwells equations we find that both the scalar and vector potentials obey the wave equation with a charge/current density source.

##\Box \phi= \frac{\rho}{\epsilon} ##
##\Box\vec{A} = \mu \vec{J}##

So using the greens function for the wave equation we can compute the scalar or vector potential given either a charge or current density.

##\phi(x,t)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\int \frac{\delta(t'-[t-\frac{|x-x'|}{c}])}{|x-x'|}\rho(x,t) dt'\ d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x,t)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\int \frac{\delta(t'-[t-\frac{|x-x'|}{c}])}{|x-x'|}\vec{J}(x,t) dt'\ d^3x'##

If the charge/current densities are sinusoidally time dependent and using the retarded condition from the greens function we get a spatially oscillating term in the integral solution for the potentials, this term can then be expanded in the 'far zone'.

##\rho(x,t)=\rho(x)e^{-i\omega t}##
##\vec{A}(x,t)=\vec{A}(x)e^{-i\omega t}##

##\phi(x,t)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\int \frac{\delta(t'-[t-\frac{|x-x'|}{c}])}{|x-x'|}\rho(x')e^{-i\omega t'} dt'\ d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x,t)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\int \frac{\delta(t'-[t-\frac{|x-x'|}{c}])}{|x-x'|}\vec{J}(x')e^{-i\omega t'}dt'\ d^3x'##

##\phi(x,t)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\int \frac{1}{|x-x'|}\rho(x')e^{-i\omega( t-\frac{|x-x'|}{c})} d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x,t)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\int \frac{1}{|x-x'|}\vec{J}(x')e^{-i\omega (t-\frac{|x-x'|}{c})} d^3x'##Making the time dependence implicit

##\phi(x)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\int \frac{e^{ik|x-x'|}}{|x-x'|}\rho(x') d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\int \frac{e^{ik|x-x'|}}{|x-x'|}\vec{J}(x') d^3x'##

Far zone ##|x-x'| \approx |x|-\frac{x \cdot x'}{|x|}=r-\hat{n}\cdot x'## for exponential and ##|x-x'|=|x|=r## for the denominator

##\phi(x)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\int e^{ik\hat{n}\cdot x'}\rho(x') d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\int e^{ik\hat{n}\cdot x'}\vec{J}(x') d^3x'##

##\phi(x)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\sum_{n=0}^\infty\frac{(-ik)^n}{n!}\int (\hat{n} \cdot x')^n \rho(x') d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\sum_{n=0}^\infty\frac{(-ik)^n}{n!}\int (\hat{n} \cdot x')^n \vec{J}(x') d^3x'##

My questions are about these expansions, for the scalar potential expansion the 1st term gives

##\phi(x)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\int \rho(x') d^3x'##

To me this looks like a monopole wave but jackson in section 9.1 for anyone who has the book explicitly states the monopole part of the the potential is necessarily static(spatially static) by considering ##|x-x'|=r##

##\phi(x,t)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\int \frac{\delta(t'-[t-\frac{r}{c}])}{r}\rho(x,t) dt'\ d^3x'##

##\phi(x,t)=\frac{q(t'=t-\frac{r}{c})}{4\pi \epsilon}##

I don't understand where this comes from and it appears to contradict the 1st term in the expansion.

My other question is about the the second term in the scalar expansion and the first term in the vector expansion given by ##\phi(x)=\frac{-ik}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\hat{n} \cdot \int x' \rho(x') d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\int\vec{J}(x') d^3x'##

By the continuity equation and integration by parts this can be shown to be

##\vec{A}(x)=-\frac{i\omega\mu}{4\pi}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\vec{p}##
##\phi(x)=-\frac{ik}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\hat{n} \cdot \vec{p}##

with ##\vec{p}=\int x' \rho(x') d^3x'##

So there is obviously a lot of symmetry between these two equations ##\omega## and ##k##, ##\vec{p}## and ##\hat{n} \cdot \vec{p}##, ##\mu## and ##\frac{1}{\epsilon}##

Is this symmetry perserved for all paired terms in both expansions like this, what do the higher order expansion terms look like and if I did this type of expansion in covariant notation would these be the part of the same term essentially?
 
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decerto said:
My questions are about these expansions, for the scalar potential expansion the 1st term gives

##\phi(x)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\int \rho(x') d^3x'##

To me this looks like a monopole wave but jackson in section 9.1 for anyone who has the book explicitly states the monopole part of the the potential is necessarily static(spatially static) by considering ##|x-x'|=r##

##\phi(x,t)=\frac{1}{4\pi \epsilon}\int \frac{\delta(t'-[t-\frac{r}{c}])}{r}\rho(x,t) dt'\ d^3x'##

##\phi(x,t)=\frac{q(t'=t-\frac{r}{c})}{4\pi \epsilon}##

I don't understand where this comes from and it appears to contradict the 1st term in the expansion.

There is indeed a ##1/r## missing in the text (http://www-theory.lbl.gov/jdj/Errata(2010).pdf). It does not change the discussion about the static nature, since that just refers to the time independence.

My other question is about the the second term in the scalar expansion and the first term in the vector expansion given by##\phi(x)=\frac{-ik}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\hat{n} \cdot \int x' \rho(x') d^3x'##
##\vec{A}(x)=\frac{\mu}{4\pi}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\int\vec{J}(x') d^3x'##

By the continuity equation and integration by parts this can be shown to be

##\vec{A}(x)=-\frac{i\omega\mu}{4\pi}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\vec{p}##
##\phi(x)=-\frac{ik}{4\pi \epsilon}\frac{e^{ikr}}{r}\hat{n} \cdot \vec{p}##

with ##\vec{p}=\int x' \rho(x') d^3x'##

So there is obviously a lot of symmetry between these two equations ##\omega## and ##k##, ##\vec{p}## and ##\hat{n} \cdot \vec{p}##, ##\mu## and ##\frac{1}{\epsilon}##

Is this symmetry perserved for all paired terms in both expansions like this, what do the higher order expansion terms look like and if I did this type of expansion in covariant notation would these be the part of the same term essentially?

The symmetry between the numerical coefficients is indeed a property of the Lorentz invariance of electrodynamics. The fact that both terms are dipoles is more a property of the multipole expansion of the Green function (9.98). The fact that the dipole comes in as the first term of the expansion of the vector potential vs the 2nd term for the scalar potential is due to the vector vs scalar nature of the objects. At higher orders, the structure is dictated by the polar symmetry of the spherical harmonics. I believe the quadropole moment is given somewhere in Ch 9. Some explicit forms for higher mulipole moments appears in http://zon8.physd.amu.edu.pl/historia/kielich-publ/129.pdf
 
What does the first term of the scalar expansion correspond to then?
 
decerto said:
What does the first term of the scalar expansion correspond to then?

It's the same static monopolar potential that you'd find if the charge configuration was static and spherically symmetric.
 
fzero said:
It's the same static monopolar potential that you'd find if the charge configuration was static and spherically symmetric.
But it has a spatially oscillating term ##e^{ikr}## and a temporal term ##e^{i\omega t}##?
 

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