Radiation pressure - classical description

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SUMMARY

This discussion centers on the classical description of radiation pressure and its relationship with electromagnetic (e-m) waves. The participant questions the conventional understanding of radiation pressure, particularly regarding the instantaneous phase relationships of the electric and magnetic fields acting on electrons. They highlight that while the Poynting vector analysis effectively predicts radiation pressure through time-averaged calculations, it may overlook the nuances of electron motion and force interactions at specific moments. The conversation emphasizes the need for a deeper exploration of the classical mechanisms behind radiation pressure beyond the standard Poynting vector approach.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of electromagnetic wave theory
  • Familiarity with the Poynting vector and its applications
  • Knowledge of electron dynamics in electric and magnetic fields
  • Basic principles of radiation pressure in classical physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the derivation of radiation pressure from the Poynting vector
  • Explore phase relationships in electromagnetic wave interactions with matter
  • Study detailed electron dynamics in oscillating electric and magnetic fields
  • Examine classical mechanics of radiation pressure beyond time-averaged models
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Physicists, electrical engineers, and students of classical electromagnetism seeking to deepen their understanding of radiation pressure and the interactions between electromagnetic waves and matter.

dan_b_
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I have a question about the e-m explanation of radiation pressure.
As I understand it, when an e-m wave with low frequency strikes a material with a much higher resonance frequency, the displacement of the electron relative to the atom will be in phase with the electric field (well opposite phase if you account for the negative charge).
When the electric field incident on an atom is at the maximum value of the wave cycle
(ie. E(t) = Eo=Emax) , the velocity of the vibrating electron would be zero (at a turning point). The magnetic field, though also a maximum at this time (t), would produce no force on the electron at this moment.

If one explores the force produced by the magnetic field on the electron a small time before time t (e.g. 10% of a cycle earlier, when the vibrating electron is in motion) one finds that the electron (say moving in the +y direction) will experience a lateral force, say in the direction of the incident radiation. But if one compares this to the force experienced a short moment after time t (e.g. 10% of a cycle later) the electron is moving in the opposite direction (having passed the turning point). The B field still has the same sign at this moment, but the electron's velocity has reversed - the lateral force produced by the B-field must also be reversed. As I see it, radiation pressure is not predicted - the lateral force on the matter would be oscillatory. The lateral force produced would average to zero over a cycle.

I have read Poyting vector analyses that generate the radiation pressure, but they never seem to discuss the instantaneous relationships of the phases of interest.

Is there something wrong with my thinking? Is there an article that accounts for the phase
relations in the radiation pressure analysis? I would be most grateful if I could get the help to "get over this one"!
 
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dan_b_ said:
I have read Poyting vector analyses that generate the radiation pressure, but they never seem to discuss the instantaneous relationships of the phases of interest.

That's because it is usually the time averaged Poynting vector that is used to find radiation pressure.

Is there something wrong with my thinking? Is there an article that accounts for the phase
relations in the radiation pressure analysis? "!

Yes there is, but I'm too lazy to LaTex it; It is given here (middle of the page under the heading "DERIVATION"):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poynting_vector

Creator
 
I had a look at the Poynting vector information that you recommended - thank you for the suggestion. It seems like Poynting vector arguments justifiably ignore the nature of the interaction of the wave and matter, in that conservation of E and p are sufficient to predict a formula for the amount of radiation pressure that an e-m wave can exert on matter. This would justify the time averaging approach. But I am still interested in understanding the classical mechanism of the interaction (the meat rather than the potatoes, if you will).
 

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