Reason for finding power devices losses

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the purpose of finding power device losses, specifically in the context of power electronics such as SiC IGBTs. Participants explore the implications of these losses for device design, thermal management, and overall system efficiency.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the definition of 'power device,' suggesting it could refer to various devices like electric drills or computers.
  • One participant specifies that their power device refers to SiC IGBTs, indicating a focus on a particular type of power electronics.
  • It is noted that power losses are equated to heat dissipation, which is critical for designing appropriate heatsinking and cooling solutions to maintain safe operating temperatures.
  • Participants discuss the importance of understanding various components of power loss, such as Pon, Poff, Pon-state, Pswitching, and Ptotal, as they contribute to the total energy loss that must be managed.
  • One participant emphasizes the challenges in ensuring effective cooling and the need for electrical engineers to pay attention to thermal management, citing issues with fixed heatsink temperatures and the importance of thermal resistance (Rth) in device selection.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the significance of understanding power losses for thermal management and device reliability, but there are varying perspectives on the specifics of how to approach these calculations and the implications for system design.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of power losses and the specific thermal management strategies that should be employed. The discussion also highlights a potential gap in knowledge among electrical engineers regarding thermal resistance and its impact on device selection.

billy fok
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may i know what is the purpose of finding power devices losses??
 
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What do you mean by 'power device' ?
It could be an electric drill or it could be a computer.
The designer of the device will need to consider energy wastage as heat, amongst other things, in order to choose suitable components with which to build the device.
 
rootone said:
What do you mean by 'power device' ?
It could be an electric drill or it could be a computer.
The designer of the device will need to consider energy wastage as heat, amongst other things, in order to choose suitable components with which to build the device.
my power device is refer to SiC IGBT
 
billy fok said:
may i know what is the purpose of finding power devices losses??
Because power losses equate to the heat dissipated in the device. We need this information to design suitable heatsinking and cooling, to keep the devices within their safe operating temperature range.
 
uart said:
Because power losses equate to the heat dissipated in the device. We need this information to design suitable heatsinking and cooling, to keep the devices within their safe operating temperature range.

may i still know what is the purpose of finding: Pon, Poff, Pon-state, Pswitching and Ptotal??
 
billy fok said:
may i still know what is the purpose of finding: Pon, Poff, Pon-state, Pswitching and Ptotal??
They are just the various components of the total energy loss that we need to account for when determining the total power loss.

The total energy loss per cycle generally consists of the on state losses plus the switching losses. The switching consist of the "turn on" losses plus the "turn off" losses.

Adding all of the various energy losses together gives the total energy loss per cycle, and multiplying this by the switching frequency gives the average power loss - which is essentially the rate at which we need to remove heat.
 
I deal with this issue daily - the devices have a max temperature they can survive, if they generate more heat than you can dissipate - they will fail. ( There is of course the other issue of system efficiency) .
It is a constant struggle to get EEs to really pay attention to how effective their cooling ( heat dissipation is) - it is very common for EEs to use a Fixed Heatsink Temp of 80C - then the Heatsink supplier has to provide a HS that can dissipate X watts of heat to an ambient Temp Y - this is fine for the first pass evaluation but not for any type of an optimized system (not to mention determining lifetime!). When I meet a new EE on a new project and I ask what is your Rth and I get a blank stare - I know it will be a long road to get good information to help them succeed in their job of selecting the best device.
 

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