Record-Breaking Capacitance: What is the Highest Ever Achieved?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the highest capacitance ever achieved, exploring both theoretical and practical aspects of capacitance in capacitors and batteries. Participants share their thoughts on the significance of high capacitance values, the comparison between capacitors and batteries, and the implications of these values in real-world applications.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the highest capacitance ever recorded, expressing skepticism about high values like 3 F.
  • Another participant suggests that natural phenomena, particularly in the Amazon, may have achieved high capacitance.
  • Several participants mention commercially available capacitors with capacitance values up to 5000 F, arguing that such values are not absurd.
  • There is a humorous exchange about the potential power storage capabilities of a 5000 F capacitor.
  • A participant raises a question about the capacitance of a 200 amp hour 24 volt lorry battery, leading to a discussion about the differences between capacitance and capacity.
  • Some participants clarify that batteries have capacity, not capacitance, and emphasize the differences in how energy is stored in capacitors versus batteries.
  • One participant attempts to calculate the capacitance of a battery using charge and voltage, but others challenge the validity of applying capacitance concepts to batteries.
  • There is a debate about the terminology used, with some participants insisting on the importance of distinguishing between capacitance and capacity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the highest capacitance achieved or the applicability of capacitance concepts to batteries. There are multiple competing views on the definitions and comparisons between capacitors and batteries, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty regarding the application of capacitance to batteries and the implications of high capacitance values in practical scenarios. The discussion reflects a mix of technical reasoning and informal exchanges, with some calculations and definitions remaining contested.

Bassalisk
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What is the highest capacitance ever made/achieved?

I am asking this because, when I am solving some time domain circuits, the values are given like 3 F etc. And I know that is absurd, and I really hate it because, if I didn't take electronics at home, I wouldn't have the feeling for high/low capacitance.

But anyway, what is the highest capacitance ever recorded?
 
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Achieved by the Nature, probably, recorded by the Brazilians, most probably - in the Amazonia regions.
 
Yuri B. said:
Achieved by the Nature, probably, recorded by the Brazilians, most probably - in the Amazonia regions.

That capacitance is?
 
If you google "5000 Farad capacitor" you'll see that there are several companies selling capacitors of that capacitance. So 3 Farads is not a ridiculous number.
 
janrs said:
If you google "5000 Farad capacitor" you'll see that there are several companies selling capacitors of that capacitance. So 3 Farads is not a ridiculous number.

omg. You can store a power plant in it? :D
 
Bassalisk said:
omg. You can store a power plant in it? :D

Yeeeaaaah, I guess 5000 F is pretty ridiculously large. Considering that if you hooked it up to a single volt of power, you'd get 5000 C ... Which, discharging in 1 second, would give you 5000 W. Nbd.
 
janrs said:
Yeeeaaaah, I guess 5000 F is pretty ridiculously large. Considering that if you hooked it up to a single volt of power, you'd get 5000 C ... Which, discharging in 1 second, would give you 5000 W. Nbd.

5kW ? Thats like freakin' 5 washing mashines :smile:
 
http://powerelectronics.com/passive_components_packaging_interconnects/capacitors/1000-3000-5000-farad-ultracapacitors-031810/" of the place that sells 5000 F capacitors. It says they're for "A wide range of high-power applications, such as transportation, electric utility, material handling, industrial bridge power and renewable energy generation."

... so they could very well be powering 100 washing machines with that capacitor. :)
Although, keep in mind that it's only 5 kW if it discharges in 1 second. That's apparently not the intent, since the site also says they're for "long-operating-life energy storage."
 
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5kW ? Thats like freakin' 5 washing mashines

If you are taking in washing now I have some available!

:smile:

Meanwhile ask yourself what is the capacitance of a 200 amp hour 24 volt lorry battery?
 
  • #10
Studiot said:
If you are taking in washing now I have some available!

:smile:

Meanwhile ask yourself what is the capacitance of a 200 amp hour 24 volt lorry battery?

Well, using my prestigious knowledge of physics, and quantum mechanics, taking in the Schroedinger's wave equation, adding in the spin of the electrons, shape of the battery is approximately cylindric...

My final answer is I am clueless :smile:
 
  • #11
But still what is the capacitance of that lorry battery? Must be huge.
 
  • #12
Sparkfun sells a 2.5V 10F "super capacitor", so it's possible even with small electronics components.

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/746

You not likely to ever use something like that except in specific applications though, I imagine.
 
  • #13
Gotta admit, I learned a lot of stuff through these forums... A LOT
 
  • #14
My final answer is I am clueless

Here's a clue

200 amps for 1 hour = 200 * 3600 amp-seconds = 200 * 3600 coulombs

Capacitance = Q/V
 
  • #15
Studiot said:
Here's a clue

200 amps for 1 hour = 200 * 3600 amp-seconds = 200 * 3600 coulombs

Capacitance = Q/V

30 000 farads ?

Why aren't we taught this example? :D

But there has to be a catch. These coulombs will released slowly right? Opposing to that 5000 in one sec?
 
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  • #16
Batteries don't have capacitance.

They have capacity, but not capacitance.
 
  • #17
BTW, the capacitance of thunder clouds is very small - contrary to what I have thought.
 
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  • #18
Jiggy-Ninja said:
Batteries don't have capacitance.

They have capacity, but not capacitance.

in curcuiit theory an ideal battery is equally modeled as a capacitor of infinite capacitance.
 
  • #19
Jiggy-Ninja said:
Batteries don't have capacitance.

They have capacity, but not capacitance.

Yea my bad.
 
  • #20
Phrak said:
in curcuiit theory an ideal battery is equally modeled as a capacitor of infinite capacitance.
Studiot's calculation is still meaningless.

Batteries aren't capacitors.
 
  • #21
Jiggy-Ninja said:
Studiot's calculation is still meaningless.

Batteries aren't capacitors.

Yes but they do store charge? Or produce it... through chemical reactions, that has a equivalent capacity

capacity is by definition: Charge/potential.
 
  • #22
If you measure the rate that a Capacitor discharges through a Resistor (for instance, how long it takes for the volts to drop by 10%), you can find its Capacity. You can do precisely the same thing with a charged battery, which will make it appear as if it has a Capacitance. The difference is that one discharge will be exponential and the other won't. (The battery will be more like an approximate Voltage source.) The effective Capacitance' of the average battery that you can buy over the counter is a lot higher than the Capacitance of even a 'massive' Capacitor.

The very low internal resistance of a Capacitor gives it a number of advantages over a battery though (the fast achievable discharge time was mentioned above, for instance)
 
  • #23
sophiecentaur said:
If you measure the rate that a Capacitor discharges through a Resistor (for instance, how long it takes for the volts to drop by 10%), you can find its Capacity. You can do precisely the same thing with a charged battery, which will make it appear as if it has a Capacitance. The difference is that one discharge will be exponential and the other won't. (The battery will be more like an approximate Voltage source.) The effective Capacitance' of the average battery that you can buy over the counter is a lot higher than the Capacitance of even a 'massive' Capacitor.

The very low internal resistance of a Capacitor gives it a number of advantages over a battery though (the fast achievable discharge time was mentioned above, for instance)

Yes I agree, makes sense.
 
  • #24
Batteries are not capacitors!

One stores energy in the electric field between two isolated plates. The other stores energy in the chemical bonds of an acid touching two different kinds of conductive metal.

There are not even remotely the same thing. Please stop confusing the issue by making misleading comparisons.

Despite the similarity in the terms, capacitance of a capacitor (measured in farads) is very different from capacity of a battery (measured in amp-hours or joules). Comparing the two is like comparing pounds to pascals because they both start with "P".

The theory and math behind how the two work is totally different.
 
  • #25
Jiggy-Ninja said:
Batteries are not capacitors!

One stores energy in the electric field between two isolated plates. The other stores energy in the chemical bonds of an acid touching two different kinds of conductive metal.

There are not even remotely the same thing. Please stop confusing the issue by making misleading comparisons.

Despite the similarity in the terms, capacitance of a capacitor (measured in farads) is very different from capacity of a battery (measured in amp-hours or joules). Comparing the two is like comparing pounds to pascals because they both start with "P".

We are talking about capacity, not capacitors :D. Capacity is by definition Q/V. A single point charge has capacity in some point around it.
 
  • #26
Bassalisk said:
We are talking about capacity, not capacitors :D. Capacity is by definition Q/V. A single point charge has capacity in some point around it.
No, that's capacitance, and is completely inapplicable to batteries. It is only relevant to capacitors.

I am an extreme pedant about accurate terminology, especially when playing fast and loose with easily mixed up words can lead to confusion about two entirely different concepts, as seems to be happening here.

I'll repeat: Q/V has no meaning applied to batteries.
 
  • #27
Jiggy-Ninja said:
Batteries aren't capacitors.

No, they are not. However an infinite capacitor is an ideal battery, which is what I said, but you did not address.

What is the dq/dv of an infinite capacitor?

What is dq/dv of an ideal battery?
 
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  • #28
Of course they are not the same but the notion of an equivalent is well established in electronics. We quite happily talk of an 'internal resistance' in a component because that's what it looks like. If you have a battery in a black box, some tests will not distinguish it from a capacitor. That's what we're saying.
 
  • #29
sophiecentaur said:
Of course they are not the same but the notion of an equivalent is well established in electronics. We quite happily talk of an 'internal resistance' in a component because that's what it looks like. If you have a battery in a black box, some tests will not distinguish it from a capacitor. That's what we're saying.

Who is we?

Of course, the OP just wanted to know what's the coolest super-duper super capacitor, but that's not very interesting.
 
  • #30
We are me and my secret friend. Haha
 

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