Recurring decimals in prime fractions

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of decimal expansions of prime reciprocals, specifically focusing on why fractions of the form 1/p, where p is a prime number, yield recurring decimals. Participants explore the relationship between the periods of these decimals and their corresponding primes, as well as the implications of these relationships in the context of base 10.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants examine the periodic nature of decimal expansions for prime reciprocals and question the underlying reasons for these patterns. They discuss specific cases, such as the periods of 1/7, 1/11, and others, and attempt to establish relationships between the periods of different prime reciprocals. Some participants also raise questions about the definitions and properties of the order of 10 modulo primes.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants sharing insights and raising questions about the relationships between the periods of prime reciprocals. Some have suggested potential explanations based on mathematical properties, while others express uncertainty or challenge certain claims. There is a collaborative effort to clarify concepts and explore further implications without reaching a definitive conclusion.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the properties being discussed may depend on the specific characteristics of the primes involved and the base 10 system. There are also references to the gcd condition and its implications for the nature of the decimal expansions.

Oxymoron
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When I write out the decimal expansion of 1/p where p is a prime, it is always a recurring decimal with a period per(p). I was thinking why inverting a prime number should always give a recurring decimal but could not think of a reason other than it has to be something to do with our base 10 system of counting.

Some prime reciprocals, such as 1/7, 1/17, and 1/19 have periods which is one less that the prime. That is, per(p) = p-1 for some primes. And in fact, for all primes p, per(1/p)\,|\,(p-1). These are all interesting but there is something which I can't seem to explain.

Take the prime 11. Then the period of 1/11 is 2. Take some other prime p. Then

per\left(\frac{1}{11}\times\frac{1}{7}\right) = 2per\left(\frac{1}{p}\right)

so long as p < 31.

After looking at 1/11, I started looking at other prime reciprocals, hoping to find other relationships between the periods of 1/p, 1/q and 1/pq. Unfortunately, the only thing I could find was that

per\left(\frac{1}{p}\times\frac{1}{q}\right) = \infty

whenever p=q and the period of 1/p is odd.

I was hoping for a nice clean relationship between 1/p,1/q, and 1/pq but I could not find one at all. So I tried checking the web and again, no one seems to have found any relationships. So I came here. If anyone has seen, or done any work on comparing periods of different prime reciprocals, could you please share your knowledge.

Cheers.
 
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Oxymoron said:
Some prime reciprocals, such as 1/7, 1/17, and 1/19 have periods which is one less that the prime. That is, per(p) = p-1 for some primes. And in fact, for all primes p, per(1/p)\,|\,(p-1). These are all interesting but there is something which I can't seem to explain.

These, and the relation you want for 1/pq, can be explained by the relation between the period of 1/n and the order of 10 mod n (you're interested in the case gcd(10,n)=1 here, though the other case is worth looking at).

Oxymoron said:
Take the prime 11. Then the period of 1/11 is 2. Take some other prime p. Then

per\left(\frac{1}{11}\times\frac{1}{7}\right) = 2per\left(\frac{1}{p}\right)

so long as p < 31.

This isn't true, the period of 1/7 is 6, the period of 1/77 is also 6.

Oxymoron said:
per\left(\frac{1}{p}\times\frac{1}{q}\right) = \infty

infinity? This can't be true either, it will always be finite as 1/pq is a rational number, and hence its decimal either terminates or repeats.
 
Posted by Shmoe

These, and the relation you want for 1/pq, can be explained by the relation between the period of 1/n and the order of 10 mod n (you're interested in the case gcd(10,n)=1 here, though the other case is worth looking at).

What is n here? Does n = pq?
 
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Oxymoron said:
What is n here? Does n = pq?

Sure, if you like. It doesn't have to be the product of 2 primes though, there's a nice relation between the period of a number n with gcd(10,n)=1 and the order of 10 mod n.
 
Posted by Shmoe

Sure, if you like. It doesn't have to be the product of 2 primes though, there's a nice relation between the period of a number n with gcd(10,n)=1 and the order of 10 mod n.

That got me thinking...

The period of 1/p is the order of 10(mod p) right? so we have a congruence relation:

10^r \equiv 1(\mod p)

The period of 1/q is the order of 10(mod q). So:

10^s \equiv 1(\mod q)

And the period of 1/pq is the order of 10(mod pq). So:

10^t \equiv 1(\mod pq)

...
 
No matter what prime p we take, p is always relatively prime to 10 (since p has no divisors anyway). Take a prime. Then suppose that p divides 10^r-1, that is, nm = 10^r - 1 for some integer 1\geq m < 10^r. Then

\frac{1}{n} = \frac{m}{10^r-1} = m(10^{-r} + 10^{-2r} + \dots)

If our integer m = a+0 + 10a_1 + 10^2a_2 + \dots 10^{r-2}a_{r-2} + 10^{r-1}a_{r-1} for decimal digits a_0,\dots,a_{r-1}, then the decimal expansion of 1/p will be

\frac{1}{p} = 0.a_{r-1}a_{r-2}\dots a_1a_0a_{d-1}a_{d-2}\dots a_1a_0\dots

which will repeat with a period that will always divide r.

Then the period of 1/p is the smallest r such that p divides 10^r-1. In other words, the period of 1/p is the smallest d such that

10^r \equiv 1(\mod p)

But this is the definition of \mbox{ord}_p(10).

So the period of 1/p is the order of 10(mod p).
 
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Which should mean that

\mbox{per}\left(\frac{1}{pq}\right) = \mbox{ord}_{p+q}(10)
 
Oxymoron said:
Which should mean that

\mbox{per}\left(\frac{1}{pq}\right) = \mbox{ord}_{p+q}(10)

Should be the order of 10 mod pq, not p+q. Now do you know how to find the oder of 10 mod pq from the orders mod p and mod q?
 
Posted by Shmoe

Should be the order of 10 mod pq, not p+q. Now do you know how to find the oder of 10 mod pq from the orders mod p and mod q?

Of course, pq, nor p+q, I don't know why I wrote that. :confused:

I think I may know, although I kind of jumped at that conclusion without properly running through it.

\mbox{per}(1/p)\times\mbox{per}(1/q)

is the order of 10(mod pq). If you let n = pq (although I may now understand what you mean by this, n can be any integer so long as it is relatively prime to 10?) then

\mbox{per}(1/p)\times\mbox{per}(1/q) = \mbox{per}(1/n)

which is equal to the order of 10(mod n) = 10(mod pq). Which is the same thing as

\mbox{per}(1/pq) = \mbox{ord}_{pq}(10)
 
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  • #10
Oxymoron said:
(although I may now understand what you mean by this, n can be any integer so long as it is relatively prime to 10?)

Yes. If it's not relatively prime, then it's a terminating decimal.

Oxymoron said:
\mbox{per}(1/p)\times\mbox{per}(1/q) = \mbox{per}(1/n)

Remember th 1/7 and 1/11 example? The period of 1/11 was 2, the period of 1/7 was 6, the period of 1/77 was 6, so it's not the product of the periods.

Try a few more examples to see if you can spot a relationship. You might want to think in terms of the order of 10 mod p and q here. Specifically if r is the order of 10 mod p and 10^t=1 mod p then r divides t. Also, if 10^t=1 mod pq then 10^t=1 mod p.
 
  • #11
For example

1/7. Find \mbox{ord}_7(10)

10^2 \equiv 2(7)
10^3 \equiv 6(7)
10^4 \equiv 4(7)
10^5 \equiv 5(7)
10^6 \equiv 1(7)

and we have exhausted mod 7. So infact,

\mbox{ord}_7(10) = 6

p=17. Find \mbox{ord}_17(10).

10^2 \equiv 15(17)
10^4 = 15^2 \equiv (-2)^2 \equiv 4(17)
10^8 = 4^2 \equiv 16(17)

Thus we can see that \mbox{ord}_{17}(10) is not 1,2,4, or 8. But we must remember that \mbox{ord}_{17}(10) divides \phi(17) = 16. The divisors of 16 are 1,2,4,8, and 16. Therefore \mbox{ord}_{17}(10) = 16.

Now find \mbox{ord}_{7\cdot 17}(10)

\mbox{ord}_{7\cdot 17}(10) \Rightarrow 10^{rs} \equiv 1(7\cdot 17)

But is there a quicker way of doing this other than working them all out?
 
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  • #12
Suppose the order of 10 mod 7*17 is t. Then 10^t=1 mod 7*17. So we have both:

10^t=1 mod 7
10^t=1 mod 17

What does this tell you about t compared to 6 and 16 (the orders of 10 mod 7 and 17).
 
  • #13
But surely t can't take on two values at the same time?
 
  • #14
So 7 divides t-1 and 17 divides t-1. So 6 divides t and 16 divides t. So t=48 works but t=48 = lcm(6,16).
 
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  • #15
Oxymoron said:
So 7 divides t-1 and 17 divides t-1.

Nope. You maybe mistyped?

Oxymoron said:
So 6 divides t and 16 divides t.

Which shows lcm(6,16) divides t. You should also be able to show t divides lcm(6,16), then you'd have equality. Of course showing 10^48=1 mod 7*17 directly would work as well, but you can prove this lcm relation in general.
 
  • #16
Nope. You maybe mistyped?

Yeah, I meant to write

7 divides 10^t - 1 and 17 divides 10^t -1

=>

6 divides 10^t and 16 divides 10^t

which just comes from the definition of

10^t \equiv 1(\mod 7)

and

10^t \equiv 1(\mod 17)
 
  • #17
Which makes it that

\mbox{lcm}(6,16) \mbox{ divides } 10^t
 
  • #18
Oxymoron said:
Yeah, I meant to write

7 divides 10^t - 1 and 17 divides 10^t -1

=>

6 divides 10^t and 16 divides 10^t

7 divides 10^t - 1 implies 6 divides t, not 10^t (as 6 is the order of 10 mod 7). similar for 16, which is why we have lcm(6,16) divides t.
 
  • #19
Ahah! of course! of course! (I was lucky getting the right answer from incorrect calculations).

So finally we have that if

\mbox{ord}_{pq}(10) = t

then

t = \mbox{lcm}(p-1,q-1)
 
  • #20
and since

\mbox{ord}_{pq}(10) = \mbox{per}(1/pq)

we have

\mbox{per}(1/pq) = \mbox{lcm}(p-1,q-1)
 
  • #21
What about

\mbox{per}\left(\frac{1}{p^2}\right)?

we have

10^t = 1(mod p^2)

=>

p^2 - 1 divides t

where t = \mbox{ord}_{p^2}(10)
 
  • #22
Oxymoron said:
\mbox{per}(1/pq) = \mbox{lcm}(p-1,q-1)

This was luck again! It works for the p=7 and q=17 case, but what if p=7 and q=11?
 
  • #23
What!? How can it work for my random choice of prime numbers but not for another choice? Noooo!
 
  • #24
Maybe not all is lost...
 
  • #25
7 and 17 where peculiar because the period of 1/7 was 7-1, and the period of 1/17 was 17-1. So Ill take a stab in the dark an proclaim:

\mbox{per}(1/pq) = \mbox{lcm}(\mbox{per}(1/p),\mbox{per}(1/q))
 
  • #26
Oxymoron said:
7 and 17 where peculiar because the period of 1/7 was 7-1, and the period of 1/17 was 17-1. So Ill take a stab in the dark an proclaim:

\mbox{per}(1/pq) = \mbox{lcm}(\mbox{per}(1/p),\mbox{per}(1/q))

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner (note here the assumption that gcd(p,q)=1). The order of 10 being the lcm of the other orders is the easiest way to think about this, and the easiest way to prove it.
 
  • #27
Yay!



I also came up with something for the period of 1/p^2.

Let \mbox{ord}_{p^2}(10) = t

Then

10^t \equiv 1(\mod p^2)
=>
p^2\,|\,t-1
=>
p^2-1\,|\,t

Then p^2-1 divides t. But p^2-1 is always an even number for all primes p. So t is even, since t=\lambda(p^2-1) for some lambda.


But then the period 1/3*1/3 = 1/9 = 0.11111 has a period of 1 which is not even. Argh.
 
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  • #28
The group of units mod p^2 has order phi(p^2)=p*(p-1). The order of 10 mod p^2 will divide this. Remember Euler's theorem?
 
  • #29
When I was working through the proof of the first one with you, it worked because when we did

10^t = 1(mod 7) => 7 | 10^t - 1 => (7-1) | t

and luckily (7-1) happened to be the period of 1/7.

But say we had 11...then

10^t = 1(mod 11) => 11 | 10^t - 1 => (11-1) | t

and now (11-1) is NOT the period of 11.

So if I had been working with say 3 and 11, I would not have discovered the lcm bit! This is why I can't work out the period of 1/p^2.
 
  • #30
So when I got to the step

10^t \equiv 1(\mod p)
10^t \equiv 1(\mod q)

=>

p\,|\,t-1
q\,|\,t-1

but now I can't simply say

p-1 | t => per(1/p) | t

because p-1 is the period of 1/p (like I did when p=7,q=11), because p-1 is NOT the period of arbitrary primes. So wha
 

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