Relation between system enthelpy and surrounding entropy

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between system enthalpy and surrounding entropy, specifically examining the equation ΔStotal=ΔSsystem+ΔSsurrounding and the implications of using ΔHsystem versus ΔHsurroundings in the context of entropy changes in thermodynamic systems.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the correctness of using ΔHsystem in the equation for ΔSsurrounding, suggesting it should be ΔHsurroundings instead.
  • Another participant agrees, stating that the relation should consider the system and surroundings as an isolated system and apply conservation of energy.
  • A different viewpoint proposes that the relationship ΔHsystem=-ΔHsurroundings holds true when energy is transferred from the surroundings to the system, leading to a specific formulation of entropy changes.
  • A later reply confirms the correctness of the assertion regarding the relationship between ΔHsystem and ΔHsurroundings.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether ΔHsystem or ΔHsurroundings should be used in the context of entropy changes, indicating that multiple competing views remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of system and surroundings, as well as the conditions under which the equations are applied. The discussion does not clarify the specific scenarios or limitations of the proposed relationships.

mooncrater
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Homework Statement


It is given in my book that:
ΔStotal=ΔSsystem+ΔSsurrounding
Where S is entropy.
ΔSsurr=-ΔH/T
Therefore:
ΔStotal=ΔSsystem+[-ΔHsystem/T]

As we can see here that ΔSsurrounding=-ΔHsystem/T
is applied here . But is this relation correct?

Homework Equations


ΔS=qreversible/T
Where qreversible is the heat input which is equal to ΔH(enthalpy) for constant P and T.

The Attempt at a Solution


What I think is that , instead of ΔHsystem there should be ΔHsurroundings
Since the change in entropy of surroundings is taken. Am I correct here?
 
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You you consider system plus the surrounding to be an isolated system and apply conservation of energy, you will find the relation between ΔHsystem and ΔHsurrounding
By the way you are correct here-
mooncrater said:
there should be ΔHsurroundings
And they have not used ΔHsystem instead of ΔHsurrounding They have made use of the energy conservation equation I am talking about.
 
I think the relation you're talking about is
ΔHsystem=-ΔHsurroundings
If energy is taken from the surroundings to the system.
Therefore when:
ΔSsystem=ΔHsystem/T will be equal to minus of ΔHsurroundings
/T
Am I correct here?
 
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Yes you're correct
 
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