Relation between total energy and rest mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the relationship between total energy, relativistic mass, and rest mass, particularly in the context of particle interactions such as proton-antiproton and electron-positron annihilations. Participants explore theoretical explanations for mass, the role of the Higgs mechanism, and the implications of energy-mass conversion in particle physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the total energy produced in particle annihilations is directly proportional to the rest mass of the particles involved, citing specific energy values for protons and electrons.
  • Others argue that while energy-mass ratios can be measured, the underlying theoretical explanations for why particles have mass remain incomplete, particularly regarding the Higgs mechanism.
  • A participant suggests that the Higgs mechanism might explain why certain particles gain mass without disrupting the symmetries of fundamental interactions, while others challenge this by questioning the necessity of the Higgs for explaining rest mass.
  • There is a discussion about the nature of photons, their lack of rest mass, and how energy conversion during particle annihilation does not clarify why some particles possess mass while others do not.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the existence of a "mode" that allows for mass in certain particles and question the reasons behind the specific mass values assigned to particles like electrons.
  • Concerns are raised about the invariant nature of rest mass and how it relates to the energy states of particles, particularly in high-energy interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between total energy and rest mass, nor on the role of the Higgs mechanism in explaining mass. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in current understanding, particularly regarding the theoretical underpinnings of mass and the specific mechanisms that contribute to it, including the role of gluons and quarks in nucleon mass. There is also mention of unresolved mathematical steps in the context of energy-mass conversion.

  • #31
ZirkMan said:
From my (observable) point of view what is real is mass=energy and change in mass is change in energy (or its form). Or is there a violation of this principle in this particular case? Isn't the mass gain of the electron directly proportional to its total energy change?

What "observable"? If we use your own argument, I could turn this around and argue that this is nothing more than a mathematical construct as well! After all, the mass-energy change IS mathematical in description AND quantity. Furthermore, you buy into some classical field and not quantum field not for any physical reason, but simply based on a matter of tastes.

I think you give hand-waving argument too high of a status.

Zz.
 
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  • #32
Yes, you are right, you could say that. Maybe the problem is that I cannot imagine how the e=mc2 is compatible with this other (Higgs) concept of mass. When I make such connection and the two models will reconcile the Higgs reality will become the Reality. But until then I have to hand-wave: Help me understand it :)
 

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