Relationship between flow and pressure in a valve

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between flow and pressure in a valve setup, specifically focusing on a proportional valve controlled by an analog voltage input. Participants explore the implications of pressure measurements upstream of the valve and the behavior of flow rates in relation to valve control, considering both theoretical and practical aspects of fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the meaning of the plotted relationship between voltage and pressure, specifically whether the flow rate increases linearly with the applied voltage and how it relates to the flow coefficient ##\frac{K_v}{K_{vs}}##.
  • Another participant raises the need for clarification on the type of fluid being used (hydraulic or pneumatic) and the role of the pump in relation to the valve, suggesting that the flow rate may be primarily determined by the pump.
  • A participant specifies that the fluid is air at room temperature and discusses the implications of having a negative pressure downstream, indicating that flow decreases as the valve closes.
  • Concerns are raised about the upstream pressure being affected by other factors such as the inlet filter and pipe pressure drop, which may not have been fully accounted for in the analysis.
  • One participant provides a formula from the valve's data sheet for calculating the flow coefficient and shares specific values used in their calculations, noting that the resulting curve does not match their expectations of linearity.
  • There is a correction regarding the x-axis of the original plot, indicating that it was previously misrepresented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various viewpoints regarding the relationship between flow and pressure, with no consensus reached on the linearity of the relationship or the specific mathematical model that should describe the behavior observed in the pressure-voltage relationship.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in their understanding, including the dependence on specific definitions and the need for additional data regarding pressure drops and flow rates to fully analyze the system's behavior.

MaHo12345
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TL;DR
I am trying to identify the relationship between pressure and flow in a proportional valve, considering the flow conditions.
Hi,

I have a valve which is connected to a pipe on both sides. I measure the pressure upstream of the valve. Downstream of the valve is a screw pump. I control my valve using an analog voltage input between 0 and 10 volts. According to the datasheet, the relationship between the analog input and ##\frac{K_v}{K_{vs}}## is as follows.
Valve_relationship.PNG

I also plotted the relationship between the voltage and the pressure upstream of the valve and got the following curve

voltage_vs_pressure_new.PNG


As visible, the pressure does not increase the same way as ##\frac{K_v}{K_{vs}}##. My questions to this are as follows:

1. What is actually plotted in the first plot? Does this ##\frac{K_v}{K_{vs}}## correspond to orifice size? In this case, I am correct to say that the flow rate increases linearly with the voltage applied to the valve?
2. Why do I get the pressure-voltage relationship as show in the second curve? What would be the mathematical relationship describing this behaviour?

I have already had a few thoughts, however I could not recreate the behaviour of the second graph. I think I must calculate the ##K_{vs}## value for each specific pressure drop. However, I only know the pressure drop (as I measure it) but I do not know the flow rate. Can anybody point me in the right direction?
 
Last edited:
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MaHo12345 said:
Can anybody point me in the right direction?
There are still too many possibilities.

What is the fluid. Hydraulic or pneumatic, liquid or gas ?

Why does a positive displacement pump follow a proportional valve ?
Or have we got that backwards ?

I would expect the flow rate to be determined by the pump.
What is the source of fluid to the valve inlet ?

Can you please give a link to the proportional valve data sheet.
 
The fluid is air at room temperature. The pressure is negative (i.e. below atmosphere), that is why the scroll pump is connected downstream. As I understand, the flow decreases as the valve is closed (since it is not a hydraulic positive displacement pump with flow independent of pressure)

Source is atmosphere.

Link to the valve.
 
MaHo12345 said:
I also plotted the relationship between the voltage and the pressure upstream of the valve and got the following curve
The pressure upstream of the valve should be atmospheric pressure, less the pressure drop in the inlet filter and pipe, something that has not yet been specified.
 
Section 6, on page 7 (of the English data sheet) gives the meaning of K as the flow coefficient. Q is the flow.
 
Sorry, let me specify:
The entire setup is (from upstream to downstream):
1. Inlet at atmospheric conditions
2. Needle valve set such that the pressure is 16 mbar(abs) when proportional valve (3) is fully opened
3. Proportional valve, controlled with 0-10V DC
4. Scroll pump
5. Outlet at atmospheric conditions

So i started from the formula in the data sheet which is

$$K_\mathrm{v} = \frac {Q_\mathrm{N}} {514} \cdot \sqrt {\frac {T_1 \rho_\mathrm{N}} {p_2 \cdot \Delta p} }$$

for the sub-critical case. I used the following values:
##Q_\mathrm{N}=2 \frac {\mathrm{l}}{\mathrm{min}} = 0.12 \frac {\mathrm{m^3}}{\mathrm{s}}, \ \rho_\mathrm{N}=1.293 \frac{\mathrm{kg}}{\mathrm{m^3}}, T_1 = 298 \ \mathrm{K}, p_2 = 0.016 \ \mathrm{bar}## and for ##\Delta p = p_1-p_2## I inserted the measured values for ##p_1##. For some pressure values I also considered the supercritical case, as indicated in the data sheet.

This left me with the following curve, which is not at all linear as I think it should be:
## K_\mathrm{vs} = 0.320 \frac {m^3}{h} ## (water) for this particular valve.
K_v voltage.PNG

PS: I noticed that the x-axis with the voltage in the original post was wrong, I revised this now.
 
Last edited:

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