Relative Velocity of Two Rockets and the Earth

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the relative velocity of two rockets, A and B, moving away from Earth at relativistic speeds of 0.85c and -0.75c, respectively. Participants explore how to calculate the velocity of one rocket as observed from the other and from Earth, using the relativistic velocity addition formula.

Discussion Character

  • Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of the velocity addition formula and the implications of variable assignments. There is an exploration of how to derive velocities from different reference frames and the importance of maintaining clarity in variable definitions.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on maintaining clarity with variables and suggested deriving equations symbolically before substituting numerical values. There is an ongoing examination of the calculations, with some questioning the correctness of initial assumptions and results.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with missing brackets in equations and the need for careful consideration of signs in velocity calculations. There is also mention of a possible typo in a textbook reference, which may have contributed to confusion.

rbn251
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Homework Statement


Two rockets A and B are moving away from the Earth in opposite directions at 0.85c and -0.75c respectively.
How fast does A measure B to be travelling?

Now I have worked out v = -0.85-0.75/(1- -0.85*-0.75) = -0.997. This is correct.

Now I would like to work it out backwards to check my understanding so:
According to A:
B travels at 0.997c
The Earth frame travels at 0.75c

Q - How fast does the Earth measure B to be travelling?

Homework Equations


w=u-v/(1-uv)

The Attempt at a Solution



I expected the answer to be 0.85c but:
v=0.997-0.75/(1- 0.997*0.75) == 0.979 and not 0.85.

Thanks for any help
 
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rbn251 said:

Homework Statement


Two rockets A and B are moving away from the Earth in opposite directions at 0.85c and -0.75c respectively.
How fast does A measure B to be travelling?

Now I have worked out v = -0.85-0.75/(1- -0.85*-0.75) = -0.997. This is correct.

Now I would like to work it out backwards to check my understanding so:
According to A:
B travels at 0.997c
The Earth frame travels at 0.75c

Q - How fast does the Earth measure B to be travelling?

Homework Equations


w=u-v/(1-uv)

The Attempt at a Solution



I expected the answer to be 0.85c but:
v=0.997-0.75/(1- 0.997*0.75) == 0.979 and not 0.85.

Thanks for any help
Are you sure?

Technically you're missing some brackets in that equation.
 
As far are I know everything is correct 'mathematically'. You are right about the brackets but I have used the equation correctly in both cases as such.
 
rbn251 said:

Homework Statement


Two rockets A and B are moving away from the Earth in opposite directions at 0.85c and -0.75c respectively.
How fast does A measure B to be travelling?

Now I have worked out v = -0.85-0.75/(1- -0.85*-0.75) = -0.997. This is correct.

Now I would like to work it out backwards to check my understanding so:
According to A:
B travels at 0.997c
The Earth frame travels at 0.75c

Your problem is just keeping your variables straight. In my opinion, it's always good to make up variables for all the values in a problem, and do as much of the derivation as possible symbolically, and only substitute numbers into the equations at the last step.

So, let's make up some variable names:
[itex]v_{AE} =[/itex] velocity of [itex]A[/itex] as measured in the Earth's rest frame
[itex]v_{BE} =[/itex] velocity of [itex]B[/itex] as measured in Earth's rest frame
[itex]v_{BA} =[/itex] velocity of [itex]B[/itex] as measured in A's rest frame

The velocity addition formula tells you that:

[itex]v_{BE} = \dfrac{v_{BA} + v_{AE}}{1 + \frac{v_{BA} v_{AE}}{c^2}}[/itex]

You have: [itex]v_{BA} = -0.997c[/itex], [itex]v_{AE} = 0.85c[/itex].

[edit]: [itex]v_{BA}[/itex] is negative, so it should be [itex]-0.997c[/itex].
[second edit]: As PeroK points out, it should actually be [itex]-0.977c[/itex]
 
I think it should be 0.977 not 0.997. That's the problem.
 
haha I think you're right - typo in the textbook!
 
yup f*s sry for bothering!
 
I prefer:

##v' = \frac{u+v}{1+uv}##

##v'' = \frac{v'-u}{1-v'u} = \frac{v(1-u^2)}{1-u^2} = v##

Then you can relax!
 
PeroK said:
I prefer:

##v' = \frac{u+v}{1+uv}##

##v'' = \frac{v'-u}{1-v'u} = \frac{v(1-u^2)}{1-u^2} = v##

Then you can relax!

But my point is that for each of the variables [itex]u, v, v', v''[/itex] you need to get clear in your mind: Whose velocity is it, and relative to which frame? And you also have to keep in mind that velocity has a direction, as well as a magnitude. (In these 1-D problems, "direction" means "sign")
 

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