Relativistic Momentum: Deriving Why p=mγv

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the derivation of the relativistic momentum formula, specifically why it is expressed as ##p=\gamma mv##. Participants explore the implications of relativistic effects in a collision scenario involving two identical balls moving towards each other, examining the conservation of momentum in different reference frames.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a derivation involving a collision between two balls, questioning the necessity of the factor ##\gamma## in the momentum equation and its relation to the factor ##1/\left(1+\frac{v^2}{c^2}\right)##.
  • Another participant prompts a closer examination of the x component of momentum in the derivation, suggesting that there may be an oversight.
  • A subsequent reply reiterates the need to scrutinize the x component of momentum, indicating potential confusion regarding the reference frame and the resulting velocities post-collision.
  • Additional posts reference external resources that claim to provide a full proof of the relationship between mass, energy, and momentum in the context of special relativity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the derivation or the necessity of the ##\gamma## factor. There are multiple viewpoints regarding the interpretation of the momentum components and the implications of the reference frames used in the analysis.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved aspects regarding the assumptions made in the derivation, particularly concerning the transformation of velocities and the application of relativistic momentum in different frames of reference.

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I have been trying to derive why relativistic momentum is defined as ##p=\gamma mv##.

I set up a collision between 2 same balls (##m_1 = m_2 = m##). Before the collision these two balls travel one towards another in ##x## direction with velocities ##{v_1}_x = (-{v_2}_x) = v##. After the collision these two balls travel away from each other with velocity ##{v_1}_y = (-{v_2}_y) = v##. Coordinate system travels from left to right with velocity ##u=v## at all times (after and before collision).

Please see the pictures below where picture (a) shows situation before collision and picture (b) after collision.

http://shrani.si/f/2A/m3/4kDXDQo1/momentum.png

Below is a proof that Newtonian momentum ##mv## is not preserved in coordinate system ##x'y'##. I used ##[\, | \,]## to split ##x## and ##y## components. ##p_z'## is momentum before collision where ##p_k'## is momentum after collision.

[itex] \scriptsize<br /> \begin{split}<br /> p_z' &= \left[ m_1 {v_1}_x' + m_2 {v_2}_x'\, \biggl| \, 0 \right] = \left[ m_1 0 + m_2 \left( \frac{{v_2}_x - u}{1-{v_2}_x\frac{u}{c^2}} \right)\, \biggl| \, 0 \right]= \left[ m \left( \frac{-v - v}{1+ v \frac{v}{c^2}} \right) \, \biggl| \, 0 \right] \\<br /> p_z' &= \left[ - 2mv \left( \frac{1}{1+ \frac{v^2}{c^2}}\right) \, \biggl| \, 0 \right]<br /> \end{split}[/itex]

[itex] \scriptsize<br /> \begin{split}<br /> p_k' &= \left[-2mv \, \biggl| \,m_1 {v_1}_y' + m_2 {v_2}_y'\right]=\left[ -2mv \, \biggl| \, m_1 \left( \frac{{v_1}_y}{\gamma \left(1 - {v_1}_y \frac{u}{c^2}\right)} \right) + m_2 \left( \frac{{v_2}_y}{\gamma \left(1 - {v_2}_y \frac{u}{c^2}\right)} \right) \right]\\<br /> p_k' &= \left[ -2mv \, \biggl| \, m \left( \frac{v}{\gamma \left(1 - v \frac{v}{c^2}\right)} \right) - m \left( \frac{v}{\gamma \left(1 - v \frac{v}{c^2}\right)} \right)\right]\\<br /> p_k' &= \left[ -2mv \, \biggl| \, 0 \right]<br /> \end{split}[/itex]

It is clear that ##x## components differ by factor ##1/\left(1+\frac{v^2}{c^2}\right)##.

QUESTION: I want to know why do we multiply Newtonian momentum ##p=mv## by factor ##\gamma = 1/ \sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}## and where is the connection between ##\gamma## and factor ##1/\left(1+\frac{v^2}{c^2}\right)## which i got?

FURTHER EXPLAINATION:
In the proof above I used velocity transformations derived below (derivation is taken from here):

[itex] v_x' = \frac{dx'}{dt'}=\frac{\gamma (d x - u d t)}{\gamma \left(d t - d x \frac{u}{c^2} \right)} = \frac{d x - u d t}{d t - d x \frac{u}{c^2}} = \frac{\frac{d x}{d t} - u \frac{d t}{d t}}{\frac{d t}{d t} - \frac{d x}{d t} \frac{u}{c^2}} \Longrightarrow \boxed{v_x' = \frac{v_x - u}{1- v_x \frac{u}{c^2}}}[/itex]


[itex] v_y' = \frac{dy'}{dt'}=\frac{d y}{\gamma \left(d t - d x \frac{u}{c^2} \right)} = \frac{\frac{dy}{dt}}{\gamma \left(\frac{dt}{dt} - \frac{dx}{dt} \frac{u}{c^2} \right)} \Longrightarrow \boxed{v_y' = \frac{v_y}{\gamma \left(1 - v_x \frac{u}{c^2} \right)}}[/itex]
 
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Look carefully at the x component of the momentum in the first expression in the first line of your derivation of [itex]p_k^{'}[/itex]
 
Nugatory said:
Look carefully at the x component of the momentum in the first expression in the first line of your derivation of [itex]p_k^{'}[/itex]

You mean this expression?

[itex] p_k' = \left[ -2mv\, \biggl| \, m_1 {v_1}_y + m_2 {v_2}_y \right][/itex]

Coordinate system and observer in its origin move with ##u=v## from left to right at all times. This is why after collision observer in ##xy## would say that balls don't move in ##x## direction, while observer in ##x'y'## would state, that they both move in opposite direction. This is where i got my ##x## component ##m_1 {v_1}_x' + m_2 {v_2}_x' = m (-v) + m(-v) = -2mv##.
 
Last edited:

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