News Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, 6 YTBN Shot, Killed In Tuscon AZ

[DevilsAvocado]

I mean, you move the patient... not the hospital;

Yes of course, that’s obvious even to me, if we are talking brain surgery, etc.

My personal experience of rehab is that all work is done by the patient, not the doctor/specialist, or advanced medical equipment. That’s why I’m surprised. And I’m very surprised that you have to move a patient 1,700 km for rehab, I repeat rehab – not the most advanced brain surgery ever performed in history.

But all this depends on whether you or Evo is right. If flying with an open skull at 28,000 ft with pressurization didn’t affect her at all, then there’s nothing to discuss.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110123/ts_yblog_theticket/brain-fluid-buildup-might-delay-giffords-rehab-in-texas

Two days Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was transferred from Tucson to a Houston rehabilitation center, she remains in intensive care because of a buildup of fluid in her brain.

The fluid, doctors said Saturday, doesn't appear to be infected, but the Houston Chronicle's Todd Ackerman reports, it will likely keep her Giffords from entering full-fledged rehabilitation until at least next week.
...
Dr. John Holcomb, one of Giffords' doctors, told reporters that the trip had been medically "stressful" for the congresswoman, who was shot in the head at point blank range two weeks ago.
...
"We just have to wait and see if the fluid buildup issue solves itself," Holcomb said.

I'm sorry for asking, but I've only ever read cases of y. enterocolitica contraction, never 'talked' to anyone who has had it. If I might: how did it manifest initially (besides the obvious), and besides the reactive arthritis?

No worries. Well, since you are the OP... I guess this is okay...

I’m normally a "healthy person", except for "youthful stupidity" = fractures, teeth, deep wounds, sepsis, etc, I always been healthy = no medicine. But this was totally weird from day one. I clearly remember how it started; I got a real "bad stomach" the week after "the summer party", and a few days thereafter – when the alarm clock rang and I was to get out of the bed – I was sure someone left a sharp knife on the floor, and that I had put my big toe on the knife. It hurt &%”¤#:(! Checked the toe for blood – nothing... I thought I had "nightmare" and put down the toe again – same thing.

Jumping on one foot (the "communist model" in work) I made it to the nearest medical center. The nurses (giggle giggle) were all convinced I had a VD and prescribe some weird (wrong) stuff (the "communist model" in work again).

Next day: Woke up and felt a strange 'sensation' in my left knee... removed the sheets and there it was! My knee had 'transformed' into a "soccer ball"! ... Confusion, high pulse – I was new in the "big town" and all friends I knew where already at work or school ... I made it down to the street, and into a cab straight to the "big hospital".

The Shining or The Exorcist doesn’t frighten me anymore, because I’ve done worse - without anesthesia.

The doctor walks up to me lying on the bench, and in his hand he held a loooong 'needle' with a diameter that looked close to a gun pipe... and a very sharp edge... I asked silently if "this going to hurt"...?

No worries, he said, and slammed that BIG NEEDLE straight into my knee and I SCREAMED STRAIGHT OUT! (the "communist model" in full action! ) It was good to get that "yellow slimy stuff" out though, ... almost half a bucket.

I can’t tell you all the details, only that I got worse from here... rashes, almost every joint (feet, knees, wrists, shoulders, jaw) swollen and hurting like h*ll and defunct, painkillers in every possible and "impossible hole", cortisone injections straight in the joints, crazy fever for months, insane weight loss, total 'weakness' = pure hell on earth.

But today I’m fit as a fiddle and have absolutely no problems from the 'nightmare'!

 

[DevilsAvocado]

CNN: State of the Union, Obama great speech, addressing Gabrielle Giffords.

 

[nismaratwork]

Yes of course, that’s obvious even to me, if we are talking brain surgery, etc.

My personal experience of rehab is that all work is done by the patient, not the doctor/specialist, or advanced medical equipment. That’s why I’m surprised. And I’m very surprised that you have to move a patient 1,700 km for rehab, I repeat rehab – not the most advanced brain surgery ever performed in history.

But all this depends on whether you or Evo is right. If flying with an open skull at 28,000 ft with pressurization didn’t affect her at all, then there’s nothing to discuss.

Wait now, I didn't say it didn't have an effect, I'm just saying that this an excess of fluid without concomitant swelling of the surrounding tissue or regression of the patient isn't a major concern. We're talking about a woman who still has a 'chunk' of her skull being kept for later, so sinking in a probe and drain isn't what it would be under emergent circumstances where you need to image and place on the fly, it's a new patient, and you have to crack the skull AND the BBB!

Otherwise, you're still right about rehab, it's just that muscular rehab requires much less assistance than major neurological rehab. The level of supervision, and the possibility for a sudden and fatal reversal is also not present in the former, but is there for the latter.

You had to build muscle, stretch connective tissue, regain balance, and more. She may need to re-learn how to read, talk, and almost anything else INCLUDING literally HOW to control the right side of her body. If the patient gives up, therapists can't MAKE them rehab... it's still about the patient being GUIDED, but the effort coming from that patient.

No worries. Well, since you are the OP... I guess this is okay...

Awwww, low blow! hit below the belt!

I’m normally a "healthy person", except for "youthful stupidity" = fractures, teeth, deep wounds, sepsis, etc,

Fracture... yep
Teeth... oh definitely
Deep wounds... hmmm, but yeah, I know what you mean
SEPSIS *car screeching to a halt* HUH!? I don't think that's part of the normal "childhood scrapes"! I like you man... please stay alive... so... no more playing with rusty nails covered in fecal matter... kay?

I always been healthy = no medicine. But this was totally weird from day one. I clearly remember how it started; I got a real "bad stomach" the week after "the summer party", and a few days thereafter – when the alarm clock rang and I was to get out of the bed – I was sure someone left a sharp knife on the floor, and that I had put my big toe on the knife. It hurt &%”¤#:(! Checked the toe for blood – nothing... I thought I had "nightmare" and put down the toe again – same thing.

Jumping on one foot (the "communist model" in work) I made it to the nearest medical center. The nurses (giggle giggle) were all convinced I had a VD and prescribe some weird (wrong) stuff (the "communist model" in work again).

Next day: Woke up and felt a strange 'sensation' in my left knee... removed the sheets and there it was! My knee had 'transformed' into a "soccer ball"! ... Confusion, high pulse – I was new in the "big town" and all friends I knew where already at work or school ... I made it down to the street, and into a cab straight to the "big hospital".

The Shining or The Exorcist doesn’t frighten me anymore, because I’ve done worse - without anesthesia.

Wow.. I can't express how sorry I am that you went through that. From the swelling in the knee I can fill in the rest... jesus. I'm glad that you didn't take a "wait and see" attitutde, and... really, what else can be said? I'm glad you're alive.

The doctor walks up to me lying on the bench, and in his hand he held a loooong 'needle' with a diameter that looked close to a gun pipe... and a very sharp edge... I asked silently if "this going to hurt"...?

No worries, he said, and slammed that BIG NEEDLE straight into my knee and I SCREAMED STRAIGHT OUT! (the "communist model" in full action! ) It was good to get that "yellow slimy stuff" out though, ... almost half a bucket.

He... placed a catheter or trocar... in your KNEE... without a block?! Oh.. and that's synovial fluid... joint-lube for the body... and my only question is if it hurt more to get the drain in, or felt BETTER to get the fuid OUT?

I can’t tell you all the details, only that I got worse from here... rashes, almost every joint (feet, knees, wrists, shoulders, jaw) swollen and hurting like h*ll and defunct, painkillers in every possible and "impossible hole", cortisone injections straight in the joints, crazy fever for months, insane weight loss, total 'weakness' = pure hell on earth.

I can guess the details... man, the hell of it is that it doesn't sound like your Yersinia infection was terrible, but the auto-immune reaction... I know that in all of this you were quite unlucky, but within that set, you're lucky that your joints recovered! Still... no wonder you have that sense of humor: you have or get that, or lose your mind.

But today I’m fit as a fiddle and have absolutely no problems from the 'nightmare'!

GOOD, and I can see why you feel the way you do about undercooked meat! I'd rather have trichinosis in my groin muscles.

 

[turbo]

Giffords' condition has been upgraded from serious to good, and she's scheduled to be moved to rehab later this morning.

 

[nismaratwork]

Giffords' condition has been upgraded from serious to good, and she's scheduled to be moved to rehab later this morning.

Wow... she is one tough lady, and must have been incredibly healthy going into this. edit: (i.e. before she was shot, not moved)

 

[DevilsAvocado]

Giffords' condition has been upgraded from serious to good, and she's scheduled to be moved to rehab later this morning.

Great!

 

[DevilsAvocado]

I like you man... please stay alive... so... no more playing with rusty nails covered in fecal matter... kay?

I was not me... it was my old man... he had that 10 year old "Yellow Miracle Powder" from the Army (and I think the Army had bought it from the remains of Columbus)...

He... placed a catheter or trocar... in your KNEE... without a block?!

Yup, definitely not a catheter, trocar looks more like it (this had a 'beveled' top), and no anesthesia or blocking. This was the 'shining' real thing!

and my only question is if it hurt more to get the drain in, or felt BETTER to get the fuid OUT?

Hard to tell... I had 'transcended' to the 5th dimension and the doctor looked very much alike Jack Nicholson at the moment... god knows what had happened if I had had a gun...

I can guess the details... man, the hell of it is that it doesn't sound like your Yersinia infection was terrible, but the auto-immune reaction...

Correct, the "stomach problem" (from the bacteria) was absolutely nothing. The real problem start with the auto-immune reaction – your body is attacking your body, so to speak, and there is no cure for that.

you're lucky that your joints recovered!

Absolutely right, there are a few very very unlucky people out there who never recover from this. The joints are permanently destroyed and I can hardly imagine the horrifying troubles they have to live with, thru out their lives.

What might one learn from this? Well, if you live in a developed country and are healthy – for god’s sake appreciate it! If you do get into trouble or get ill – be sure that there’s always someone that has 10 times your troubles (like Gabrielle Giffords). And generally; Time heals all wounds.

And of course – do not forget to be an 'accurate' cook!

 

[nismaratwork]

I was not me... it was my old man... he had that 10 year old "Yellow Miracle Powder" from the Army (and I think the Army had bought it from the remains of Columbus)...



Yup, definitely not a catheter, trocar looks more like it (this had a 'beveled' top), and no anesthesia or blocking. This was the 'shining' real thing!

Hard to tell... I had 'transcended' to the 5th dimension and the doctor looked very much alike Jack Nicholson at the moment... god knows what had happened if I had had a gun...

Correct, the "stomach problem" (from the bacteria) was absolutely nothing. The real problem start with the auto-immune reaction – your body is attacking your body, so to speak, and there is no cure for that.



Absolutely right, there are a few very very unlucky people out there who never recover from this. The joints are permanently destroyed and I can hardly imagine the horrifying troubles they have to live with, thru out their lives.

What might one learn from this? Well, if you live in a developed country and are healthy – for god’s sake appreciate it! If you do get into trouble or get ill – be sure that there’s always someone that has 10 times your troubles (like Gabrielle Giffords). And generally; Time heals all wounds.

And of course – do not forget to be an 'accurate' cook!

Yeah, a trocar... holy moley... and all of that infected synovial fluid without an agent. Well... you really don't have much to be afraid of from now on do you:... it definitely all gets better after 8 months and rehab. I think I can understand your attitude a little better now; good for you.

 

[lisab]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/02/09/giffords.recovery/index.html?hpt=T2

(Her spokesman) would not divulge what Giffords has said, other than saying she asked for toast.

Holy cow, she must *really* love toast...for crying out loud, someone give that woman some toast!11

 

[Lacy33]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/02/09/giffords.recovery/index.html?hpt=T2



Holy cow, she must *really* love toast...for crying out loud, someone give that woman some toast!11

So much to be happy about here.
Science in amazing.
Peoples attachment to Will is amazing.

 

[mugaliens]

I am as happy to hear she's doing well in her recovery as I am to hear that it's going well enough for Mark to complete his mission.

 

[nismaratwork]

Ha! She's talking... asked for toast. This is the greatest revenge anyone can have; survive, thrive, and watch as Loughner ends in prison or a hospital for the rest of his life... or dead. It's hard to hate the man, given that he seems so very psychotic, but on balance there's a grim satisfaction that his target did NOT die; she's beating the odds in a way that has my jaw on the floor. Her neurologists probably have a secret and deeply held desire to vivisect her brain and see just what the hell happened, and didn't happen.

We need to get with this, because we have a LOT of veterans with similar struggles, even if you can't see the damage that obviously. TBIs... we cannot let this create another post-Vietnam generation of walking wounded.

edit: Mug: I think he's doing the right thing as well. It takes some kind of brass knockers to go into space, but to do it with your wife recovering from a head-shot?... brave. I realize some will see it badly, but given the kind of power-couple they seemed to be, I can't think that anything other than this would be right.

 

[nismaratwork]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2011/02/15/pf-17284046.html

Just over a week before Jared Loughner allegedly fired into a crowd of people near Tucson, Ariz., killing six people and seriously injuring U.S. Representative Gabrielle Giffords, the college that kicked him out was worried he'd return.

Hey, here's a thought for academia in its many forms: leave this to the REAL police. If you're worried, report, end of story.

I see a big ugly lawsuit coming there way, and I see (holds envelope to forehead)... a settlement. I'd hate to be a taxpayer in Pima County...

 

[nismaratwork]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/03/09/arizona.loughner.case/index.html?hpt=T2

Hmmm... what a shock, the guy is psychotic, but he managed to shoot a bunch of people in the head.

Tucson, Arizona (CNN) -- A federal judge Wednesday entered "not guilty" pleas on behalf of Jared Lee Loughner, the Arizona man accused of fatally shooting six people and wounding 13 others, including U.S. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Judge Larry Burns also scheduled a May 25 competency hearing for Loughner, and attorneys on both sides will be allowed to hire their own experts to evaluate Loughner's competency to stand trial.

Prosecutors sought the competency hearing, saying that Loughner had believed the FBI was bugging him, had extreme animosity toward the government, and was even hearing voices.

Loughner's public defenders didn't want such a hearing, saying it would be premature and could interfere with their ability to develop a relationship with Loughner.

But the judge said his review of materials relating to Loughner left him concerned.

"We can't do anything until I'm assured that Mr. Loughner is on board and able to assist" in his own defense, the judge ruled.

Last Thursday, a federal grand jury returned a new indictment against Jared Lee Loughner in which he is charged on 49 counts -- including murder and attempted murder -- related to the shooting outside a Tucson supermarket in January.

Loughner, 22, entered the courtroom with a slight grin, the first time he's appeared in a Tucson courtroom. His bald head is now showing growing hair.

When a clerk asked if his name was Jared Lee Loughner, he responded: "Yes it is."

In response to motions, the judge ordered prosecutors to release grand jury materials to the defense, but said Loughner's attorneys cannot reproduce the documents or leave copies of them with Loughner.

Burns also ordered the release of findings from authorities' search of Loughner's parents' home in Tucson, as requested by two Arizona media outlets. Last month, the judge sided with prosecutors in withholding the information because the investigation was ongoing and a grand jury was still preparing an indictment.

But with a new indictment now issued, the judge said it is time to unseal the documents relating to what was found in the Loughner family home.

"The active investigation is over," the judge said. "Ninety percent of the information in the warrant domain is already in the public light."

He added, "There is something mystic and suspicious in not releasing this type of information."

Burns said he will delay ruling on a motion filed by prosecutors Monday to force Loughner to submit a handwriting sample -- a request that he, thus far, has refused.

The government wants the sample to compare with handwritten notes found in Loughner's residence that include mentions of Giffords "as well as references to guns and bullets," according to a court document. It says he has resisted such requests to date, "arguing that the court lacks authority" to force him to provide a sample.

"There being no other avenue to obtain the defendant's handwriting exemplar, the government now seeks an order to compel," prosecutors wrote in the motion.

Burns said he wants to discuss some material collected by bureau of prisons on Loughner since he was arrested.

Prosecutors said they want the court to review the materials, to see if they should be able to see it. But Loughner's public defenders said they want time to review the matter and prepare arguments in writing.

As the hearing unfolded and the judge made his decisions, Loughner sat still.

The full courtroom included about 20 victim family members and seven people supporting Loughner, including a woman who dabbed her eyes with tissue. Among the spectators were Bill Badger, one of two men who jumped on Loughner and subdued him during the shooting, and shooting victim Susan Hileman.

Loughner's family members declined to comment as they left the courthouse.

Tucson attorney Michael Piccarreta, who appeared in court on behalf of slain federal Judge John Roll and his family, was asked by reporters afterward what he thought of seeing Loughner face-to-face.

Responded Piccarreta: "He's just another defendant."

Loughner was earlier indicted on three counts of attempted murder, including one alleging that he tried to kill Giffords with a Glock semiautomatic handgun during the event she was hosting for constituents.

Giffords, who was shot in the head, is undergoing rehabilitation at a medical facility in Houston.

The new indictment supersedes the earlier one. It adds murder charges connected to the deaths of Roll, a federal district judge, and Gabriel M. Zimmerman, a staff member for Giffords.

Loughner also faces charges in the deaths of Dorothy J. Morris, Phyllis C. Schneck, Dorwan C. Stoddard, and a child, referred to in the indictment as C-T G. Nine-year-old Christina-Taylor Green was among those killed in the shooting.

Autopsy reports released Monday showed that Zimmerman, Schneck and Stoddard suffered fatal head wounds, while the three others were shot in the chest.

If convicted, Loughner could face a death sentence, U.S. Attorney Dennis Burke said last week, although prosecutors have not said whether they will seek the death penalty.

 

[Proton Soup]

compelling a handwriting sample seems like a 5th violation

 

[nismaratwork]

compelling a handwriting sample seems like a 5th violation

It does, but then so does every compulsion, including a DNA sample... presumably they've been ruled to be something else. I'm no legal expert, or even particularly facile with the law so I'm not sure.

It's going to be irrelevant if he's as incompetant as I suspect he is... he's going to probably have to be compelled to undergo neuroleptic therapy as well.

 

[arildno]

First photos of Gabrielle!

Ms. Giffords is making steady progress, considering the extremely dangerous wound she received.

In this article, with a smiling, vibrant Gabrielle, we also learn about what particular achievements she has made towards self-reliance and functionality:

Since the shooting, Giffords has made remarkable strides, requesting her favorite foods, singing her favorite songs, and relearning how to walk and talk, although she struggles to string sentences together.

In an interview with The Arizona Republic published Thursday, Giffords' Chief of Staff Pia Carusone said Giffords' limited speaking ability has led her to rely primarily on facial expressions and hand gestures to communicate.

"She is borrowing upon other ways of communicating. Her words are back more and more now, but she's still using facial expressions as a way to express. Pointing. Gesturing," Carusone said. "Add it all together and she's able to express the basics of what she wants or needs. But, when it comes to a bigger and more complex thought that requires words, that's where she's had the trouble."

Carusone also said that if Giffords' recovery were to plateau now, "it would not be nearly the quality of life she had before."

"All that we can hope for is that she won't plateau today and that she'll keep going and that when she does plateau, it will be at a place far away from here," she said.

The fact that she is now fully able to communicate with the world around her IS remarkable.
And even if she should "plateau" now, to the chagrin of us all, she will still have a devoted husband and family that can see her needs and bring joy into her life.
And, perhaps even more important, she now knows she is able to reciprocate it for them.
For example by her winning smile.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/12/gabrielle-giffords-photos_n_875498.html

 

[lisab]

Today, Representative Giffords cast her first vote since being shot through her head in January. She voted for the debt agreement.

Congrats, Gabby!

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...rds-pays-house-a-surprise-visit-for-debt-vote

 

[Proton Soup]

wow, that's amazing.

 

[lisab]

wow, that's amazing.

I know! Who would have believed it, after hearing the details of the shooting that day?

 

[russ_watters]

I know it's old, but a quick clarification:

compelling a handwriting sample seems like a 5th violation

A handwriting sample is evidence, not testimony, so it is covered by the 4th amendment, not the 5th. So as long as it is reasonable to believe a person might be guilty, you can compel them to provide evidence, including from their person.

 

[Proton Soup]

I know it's old, but a quick clarification: A handwriting sample is evidence, not testimony, so it is covered by the 4th amendment, not the 5th. So as long as it is reasonable to believe a person might be guilty, you can compel them to provide evidence, including from their person.

i don't agree with it, but i see where you're coming from.


and speaking of giffords, I'm a little surprised no one has noticed what Jimmy Hoffa Jr said recently.

http://www.wmal.com/article.asp?id=2279665&SPID=28718

At a Labor Day rally in Detroit, Hoffa urged the President to use unions as his army to fight back against the Tea Party and "take these son-of-a-bitches out."

great, just what we need. a whole army of lone wolf terrorists going after candidates they don't like. if this were reversed, I'm sure there'd be a ton of righteous indignation here.