Representations, Wittgenstein, and all the rest

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Vanadium 50
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Representations Rest
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around philosophical interpretations of self-identity as proposed by Wittgenstein, particularly in relation to mathematical concepts of equivalence and identity. Participants explore the implications of these ideas on mathematical representations and the nature of objects, touching on topics such as group theory and the distinction between notation and quantity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express frustration with unclear questions leading to unhelpful answers, emphasizing the need for clarity in discussions.
  • There is a debate about whether two instances of the number 1 can be considered distinct or identical, with some arguing for equivalence rather than strict identity.
  • One participant references Wittgenstein's view that self-identity is nonsensical, suggesting that this has implications for mathematical assertions like Russell’s Axiom of Infinity.
  • Participants discuss the mathematical equivalence of fractions, with differing opinions on whether ##\frac{1}{2}## and ##\frac{2}{4}## should be viewed as equal or merely equivalent.
  • Some participants highlight the importance of context in determining the identity of objects, using examples from programming and everyday scenarios like cake portions.
  • There is a mention of the potential confusion arising from philosophical discussions, with a call for clarity in the application of Wittgenstein's ideas to mathematical contexts.
  • One participant corrects a misquote regarding the equivalence of fractions, clarifying their position on the matter.
  • A later post emphasizes that a representation of a group does not need to be injective, challenging common assumptions about representations in mathematical contexts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of identity and equivalence, with no clear consensus reached. Disagreements persist regarding the interpretation of Wittgenstein's philosophy and its application to mathematical concepts.

Contextual Notes

Some discussions rely on specific philosophical interpretations that may not be universally accepted, and there are unresolved mathematical distinctions regarding notation and equivalence.

  • #31
The using of 'different than' alienates me ##-## one thing can be more different or less different from another thing than a third thing is, but one thing can't properly be said to be 'different than' another thing ##-## e.g. an elephant is more different from an amoeba than it is from a mouse, and an elephant is much bigger than either an amoeba or a mouse ##\dots##
 
Last edited:
Mathematics news on Phys.org
  • #32
A practical example: if a vending machine accepts US nickels, dimes, and quarters, whether I deposit 2 quarters or 5 dimes does not affect whether I get the candy bar ##-## if it's a 50-cent candy bar (as in the '70s) then I get the candy bar either way.

In the '80s in Chicago I knew a grocer who had formally studied engineering ##-## sometimes people would show up who wanted to spend their 'change jar' coin money ##-## he would tell them to sort it by which kind of coin, and then he would put the coins on the scale and accept them at value according to their weight ##-## he said that he knew that the per-coin weight varied a little but he didn't care if $35 worth of dimes was off by a dime or two one way or the other, he wasn't going to count them one-by-one, and he didn't want turn away a customer ##\dots##

A US nickel 'weighs' (under standard conditions) very close to 5 grams (5.000 g according to US Mint specs). I've used $2 worth of them to calibrate a scale.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
4K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
363
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
5K
  • · Replies 67 ·
3
Replies
67
Views
12K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K