Researching Autocatlytic Reactions: A Starting Point for Un-named Projects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of autocatalytic reactions and the feasibility of creating a set of chemical reactions that can theoretically cycle indefinitely. Participants explore the underlying principles of chemical reactions, equilibrium, and the potential role of biological agents in sustaining these reactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to create a series of chemical reactions that would allow the original reactants to be regenerated indefinitely, proposing a set of equations.
  • Another participant questions the feasibility of such a system, suggesting that the overall reaction implies mass generation from nothing, which violates conservation laws.
  • Some participants mention that while perpetual motion is impossible, oscillatory reactions exist, which are driven by external processes.
  • There is a suggestion that biological agents could be utilized to maintain the cycling of reactions, although others caution that biological components still adhere to the same chemical laws.
  • Participants discuss the necessity of energy input to sustain reactions and prevent the system from reaching equilibrium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of creating a perpetual cycling reaction system. While some argue that it is impossible due to thermodynamic constraints, others propose that incorporating biological components could allow for sustained reactions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the potential for such systems.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations related to the assumptions of mass conservation and the need for energy input to maintain reaction cycles. The discussion also touches on the distinction between chemical and biological processes in terms of their behavior under thermodynamic principles.

  • #31
Just to finish my kinetic approach:

In addition to my stoichiometric equations above there is also this one:

<br /> \left[ A \right] - \left[ B \right] + \left[ E \right] = \left[ A \right]_0 - \left[ B \right]_0 + \left[ E \right]_0 <br />

The two required equations for the remaining components A an B result from the condition for the equilibrium:

<br /> k_1 \cdot \left[ A \right] \cdot \left[ B \right] = k_2 \cdot \left[ C \right] \cdot \left[ E \right] = k_3 \cdot \left[ D \right] \cdot \left[ F \right]<br />

this leads to

<br /> \left[ B \right] = \frac{{\left( {\left[ A \right]_0 + \left[ C \right]_0 - \left[ A \right]} \right) \cdot \left( {\left[ A \right]_0 - \left[ B \right]_0 + \left[ E \right]_0 - \left[ A \right]} \right)}}{{\left[ A \right] \cdot \left( {1 + \frac{{k_1 }}{{k_2 }}} \right) - \left[ A \right]_0 - \left[ C \right]_0 }}<br />

Now there is only one concentration left but unfortunately I can not solve the corresponding equation. Thus a numeric simulation seems to be the easiest way to get the equilibrium composition from kinetic parameters.
 

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