Reverse-tracing Einstein's field equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the manipulation and rewriting of Einstein's field equation in general relativity. Participants explore the process of reverse-tracing the equation and the implications of various mathematical steps involved in deriving the desired form.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks to rewrite Einstein's field equation and expresses confusion about the trace of the Ricci scalar, suggesting a potential error in their understanding.
  • Another participant suggests multiplying both sides of the equation by the metric tensor to derive a simpler form, leading to a substitution step.
  • A different participant attempts the substitution but arrives at an incorrect form, questioning if they missed something obvious in the process.
  • One participant advises taking the trace of both sides of the equation, noting the trace of the metric and Ricci tensor, and proposes substituting back to find the correct relationship.
  • Several participants discuss the properties of the metric tensor, including its trace and the implications of its signature in different contexts.
  • There is a clarification about the absolute value of the determinant of the metric tensor, with some participants debating its interpretation in the context of general relativity.
  • A participant acknowledges corrections made during the discussion, indicating a resolution of their earlier confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the manipulation of the equations and the interpretation of the metric tensor's properties. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct approach to rewriting the field equation, with multiple competing views presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential errors in sign and assumptions about the metric tensor's properties, but these remain unresolved within the discussion.

TheMan112
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How do I rewrite Einsteins famous field equation

R_{ab} - \frac{1}{2} g_{ab} R = \frac{8 \pi G}{c^4} T_{ab}

into:

R_{ab} = \frac{8 \pi G}{c^4} (T_{ab} - \frac{1}{2} g_{ab} T)

I've tried experimenting with reverse-tracing the Ricci-scalar, but I just don't get the right equation. The trace from these equations would yield R=-T. Is this really correct?
 
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Multiply both sides by g^{ab} to get

\frac{1}{2}R = \kappa T

then substitute back.
 
Mentz114 said:
Multiply both sides by g^{ab} to get

\frac{1}{2}R = \kappa T

then substitute back.

Ok, I insert the expression and get:

R_{ab} - \frac{8 \pi G}{c^4} g_{ab} T = \frac{8 \pi G}{c^4} T_{ab}

R_{ab} = \frac{8 \pi G}{c^4} \left(T_{ab} + g_{ab} T \right)

Which as you can see is not entirely right. Have I missed something very obvious?
 
Take trace of both sides of Einstein eq. Trace of the metric is 4. Trace of Ricci tensor is R. You get

R = - k T

then substitute that back for R and take the metric term on the other side.
 
I made a mistake, g^{ab}g_{ab} = -1.
 
TheMan112 said:
...
R_{ab} - \frac{1}{2} g_{ab} R = \frac{8 \pi G}{c^4} T_{ab}

Check for an errant sign in this equation.
 
Mentz114 said:
I made a mistake, g^{ab}g_{ab} = -1.

Okay, that fixes it.
 
g^{ab}g_{ab} = \delta^a_a = 4
 
smallphi said:
g^{ab}g_{ab} = \delta^a_a = 4

Yes, you're correct. It's |g| = -1.
 
Last edited:
  • #10
Mentz114 said:
Yes, you're correct. It's |g| = -1.

How can |g| = abs(g) = -1 ? An absolute value can't be negative. For example a radius cannot be negative.
 
  • #11
|g| = 1 only in Special Relativity. In GR, the value of |g| changes with the coordinate system used but it's signature (the signs of the eigenvalues when you diagonalize it) doesn't change, depending on the sign convention it's either (-, +, +, +) or (+, -, -, -).
 
  • #12
Got it right now, thanks everybody.
 

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