Undergrad Ricci tensor from this action

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The discussion focuses on deriving the Ricci tensor from a specific action that couples gravity to a scalar field. The action is given as S = ∫ d^4x √(-g) e^Φ (R + g^ab Φ_;a Φ_;b). The participants identify an error in the variation process, specifically related to the overloading of indices when taking variations, which leads to incorrect results. The correct expression for the Ricci tensor is derived as R_ab = ∇_a ∇_b Φ, clarifying the relationship between the scalar field and curvature. The conversation emphasizes the importance of careful index management in tensor calculus.
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Here is an action for a theory which couples gravity to a field in this way:$$S = \int d^4 x \ \sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} (R + g^{ab} \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b})$$I determine\begin{align*}
\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi} &= \sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} (R + g^{ab} \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b}) \\
\nabla_a \frac{\partial L}{\partial(\nabla_a \Phi)} &= 2\sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} g^{ab} (\Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b} + \Phi_{;ba})
\end{align*}giving ##R = g^{ab} (\Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b} + 2\Phi_{;ba})##. Now vary the action with respect to the metric,\begin{align*}
\frac{\delta S}{\delta g^{ab}} &= -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} g_{ab} (R + g^{cd} \Phi_{;c} \Phi_{;d}) + \sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi}(\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{ab}} + \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b}) \end{align*}Put ##\delta R_{ab} / \delta g^{ab} = R_{ab}## and insert the previous equation for ##R##. Zero the variation and cancel the common factor ##\sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi}##,$$0 = -g_{ab} g^{cd} (\Phi_{;c} \Phi_{;d} + \Phi_{;dc}) + R_{ab} + \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b}$$This should give ##R_{ab} = \Phi_{;ba}## but it doesn't work out that way because the indices are mangled. Can somebody see the error?
 
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ergospherical said:
Here is an action for a theory
Is there a particular source from which you got this? It looks like it might be the general action for one kind of scalar-tensor theory of gravity.
 
It's just a very old exam. I presumed it was just something arbitrary the examiner thought up, but may have some application.
 
Not sure if you eventually managed to figure it out but your error is you're overloading indices when taking the variations. Generally speaking, it's better to give separate indices for the field you're taking variations with respect to, compared to the indices in the quantity you're computing variations of.

We have $$\frac{\delta S}{\delta \nabla_c \Phi} = 2\sqrt{-g}e^{\Phi}\nabla^c \Phi,$$ hence $$\nabla_c\frac{\delta S}{\delta \nabla_c \Phi} = 2\sqrt{-g}e^{\Phi}\nabla^c \nabla_c \Phi.$$ Thus $$R = 2\nabla^a \nabla_a \Phi - \nabla^a \Phi \nabla_a \Phi.$$

We can now compute ##\frac{\delta S}{\delta g^{ab}}##. The general expression you calculated is indeed correct: $$R_{cd} = \frac{\delta S}{\delta g^{cd}} = \sqrt{-g}e^{\Phi}\left(\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{cd}} - \frac{1}{2}g_{cd}R + \nabla_c \Phi \nabla_d \Phi - \frac{1}{2}g_{cd}\nabla^e \Phi \nabla_e \Phi\right).$$

We have $$\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{cd}} = 2\nabla_c \nabla_d \Phi - \nabla_c \Phi \nabla_d \Phi.$$ Plugging in for ##R## we find the desired result $$R_{ab} = \nabla_a \nabla_b \Phi.$$

Hope that helps!
 
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Yeah, it was a mistake in ##\nabla_a \frac{\partial L}{\partial(\nabla_a \Phi)}##. Hard for me to figure out why it happened. :)
 
A good one to everyone. My previous post on this subject here on the forum was a fiasco. I’d like to apologize to everyone who did their best to comment and got ignored by me. In defence, I could tell you I had really little time to spend on discussion, and just overlooked the explanations that seemed irrelevant (why they seemed irrelevant, I will tell you at the end of this). Before we get to the point, I will kindly ask you to comment having considered this text carefully, because...

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