Undergrad Ricci tensor from this action

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The discussion focuses on deriving the Ricci tensor from a specific action that couples gravity to a scalar field. The action is given as S = ∫ d^4x √(-g) e^Φ (R + g^ab Φ_;a Φ_;b). The participants identify an error in the variation process, specifically related to the overloading of indices when taking variations, which leads to incorrect results. The correct expression for the Ricci tensor is derived as R_ab = ∇_a ∇_b Φ, clarifying the relationship between the scalar field and curvature. The conversation emphasizes the importance of careful index management in tensor calculus.
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Here is an action for a theory which couples gravity to a field in this way:$$S = \int d^4 x \ \sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} (R + g^{ab} \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b})$$I determine\begin{align*}
\frac{\partial L}{\partial \phi} &= \sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} (R + g^{ab} \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b}) \\
\nabla_a \frac{\partial L}{\partial(\nabla_a \Phi)} &= 2\sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} g^{ab} (\Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b} + \Phi_{;ba})
\end{align*}giving ##R = g^{ab} (\Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b} + 2\Phi_{;ba})##. Now vary the action with respect to the metric,\begin{align*}
\frac{\delta S}{\delta g^{ab}} &= -\frac{1}{2}\sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi} g_{ab} (R + g^{cd} \Phi_{;c} \Phi_{;d}) + \sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi}(\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{ab}} + \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b}) \end{align*}Put ##\delta R_{ab} / \delta g^{ab} = R_{ab}## and insert the previous equation for ##R##. Zero the variation and cancel the common factor ##\sqrt{-g} e^{\Phi}##,$$0 = -g_{ab} g^{cd} (\Phi_{;c} \Phi_{;d} + \Phi_{;dc}) + R_{ab} + \Phi_{;a} \Phi_{;b}$$This should give ##R_{ab} = \Phi_{;ba}## but it doesn't work out that way because the indices are mangled. Can somebody see the error?
 
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ergospherical said:
Here is an action for a theory
Is there a particular source from which you got this? It looks like it might be the general action for one kind of scalar-tensor theory of gravity.
 
It's just a very old exam. I presumed it was just something arbitrary the examiner thought up, but may have some application.
 
Not sure if you eventually managed to figure it out but your error is you're overloading indices when taking the variations. Generally speaking, it's better to give separate indices for the field you're taking variations with respect to, compared to the indices in the quantity you're computing variations of.

We have $$\frac{\delta S}{\delta \nabla_c \Phi} = 2\sqrt{-g}e^{\Phi}\nabla^c \Phi,$$ hence $$\nabla_c\frac{\delta S}{\delta \nabla_c \Phi} = 2\sqrt{-g}e^{\Phi}\nabla^c \nabla_c \Phi.$$ Thus $$R = 2\nabla^a \nabla_a \Phi - \nabla^a \Phi \nabla_a \Phi.$$

We can now compute ##\frac{\delta S}{\delta g^{ab}}##. The general expression you calculated is indeed correct: $$R_{cd} = \frac{\delta S}{\delta g^{cd}} = \sqrt{-g}e^{\Phi}\left(\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{cd}} - \frac{1}{2}g_{cd}R + \nabla_c \Phi \nabla_d \Phi - \frac{1}{2}g_{cd}\nabla^e \Phi \nabla_e \Phi\right).$$

We have $$\frac{\delta R}{\delta g^{cd}} = 2\nabla_c \nabla_d \Phi - \nabla_c \Phi \nabla_d \Phi.$$ Plugging in for ##R## we find the desired result $$R_{ab} = \nabla_a \nabla_b \Phi.$$

Hope that helps!
 
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Yeah, it was a mistake in ##\nabla_a \frac{\partial L}{\partial(\nabla_a \Phi)}##. Hard for me to figure out why it happened. :)
 
In this video I can see a person walking around lines of curvature on a sphere with an arrow strapped to his waist. His task is to keep the arrow pointed in the same direction How does he do this ? Does he use a reference point like the stars? (that only move very slowly) If that is how he keeps the arrow pointing in the same direction, is that equivalent to saying that he orients the arrow wrt the 3d space that the sphere is embedded in? So ,although one refers to intrinsic curvature...

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