Riddle game - Something for you scientists

[JamesU]

I'll try again in a few minutes

 

[Gale]

i know I'm talking to myself but still...

i've been googling trying to get some ideas, and i don't know if the author intended it or not, but they have a deck of "elite" playing cards... the riddle uses traditional cards so i doubt it was intended as a pun. which makes me wonder if perhaps the word 'elite' refers to something else... either way, a note to the author: i think one reason we've gotten stuck as a group is because we take a lot of the words used literally, and mistake wrong things as clues. so, hopefully you're picky with words choices..

 

[Kazza_765]

Yeah I've been trying more or less the same things gale. Trying to assign points to the cards in such a way that I don't end up with decimals. Have tried dozens of different ways but I can't seem to get anything.

I'm not sure about the fire/water/air/earth, might be a red herring. In tarot that is what the cards represent but I can't find any relevance to this problem.

I've tried heaps of points systems (based on card games I've found) where A=5,K=4,Q=3,J=2,10=1, or 10=5,A=4,K=3... etc as well as just A=14, K=13, Q=12, J=11, 10=1 etc... But I can't seem to find a way to do it without resulting in decimals.

 

[Kazza_765]

"it all starts with zero."

There are three strings of numbers on the page, and they all start with zero, so perhaps the answer does as well.

Just thinking out loud.

 

[Omega_6]

Yeah I've been trying more or less the same things gale. Trying to assign points to the cards in such a way that I don't end up with decimals. Have tried dozens of different ways but I can't seem to get anything.

I'm not sure about the fire/water/air/earth, might be a red herring. In tarot that is what the cards represent but I can't find any relevance to this problem.

I've tried heaps of points systems (based on card games I've found) where A=5,K=4,Q=3,J=2,10=1, or 10=5,A=4,K=3... etc as well as just A=14, K=13, Q=12, J=11, 10=1 etc... But I can't seem to find a way to do it without resulting in decimals.

Yeah, I can never get all the rows to work out as integers...but like Gale said, lately we have been taking the wrong things literally and other things not literally enough...

 

[Gale]

yay! i much prefer doing these puzzles together. i thought i was all alone. anyway yeah, mostly I've been adding and multiplying trying to get some numbers that make sense. then take the 5 numbers and assign letters... so on.

the other thought i had was that we go x-wise first because its easier to equate equations of 3 unknowns, and then use the values to solve in the y direction. so if he was literally about the units thing then each row equals one and then you can solve for all the variables that way. if he's not literal i was still messing around. the best place I've seen to work from seems to be the first and last rows since they're very similar. also there's a lot of 5's

there's also 10 different cards, he doesn't use 4, 9, or 10. significant or not? dunno.

 

[Omega_6]

yay! i much prefer doing these puzzles together. i thought i was all alone. anyway yeah, mostly I've been adding and multiplying trying to get some numbers that make sense. then take the 5 numbers and assign letters... so on.

the other thought i had was that we go x-wise first because its easier to equate equations of 3 unknowns, and then use the values to solve in the y direction. so if he was literally about the units thing then each row equals one and then you can solve for all the variables that way. if he's not literal i was still messing around. the best place I've seen to work from seems to be the first and last rows since they're very similar. also there's a lot of 5's

One interesting thing is that no suit repeats itself x-wise...it probably is nothing but it would give the answer you get for each row a suit.

 

[Gale]

also something that bugs me, is the "each row is a unit" so i try to treat each row separately. but rows 2 and 4 start with mult and division. so i haven't known how to treat that. i tried carrying the numbers from the row before, and i tried starting with zero, and with 1/x all with not fantastic results.

 

[Gale]

One interesting thing is that no suit repeats itself x-wise...it probably is nothing but it would give the answer you get for each row a suit.

i'm not sure what you mean. the first row has two hearts...?

 

[Kazza_765]

I've been wondering about that too, I also tried starting each row with one of the numbers from the background, so start row 2 with 25, row 3 with 5, which works well until row 5 which ends up with a decimal

 

[Omega_6]

i'm not sure what you mean. the first row has two hearts...?

Yeah, I don't know what I mean either Just a quick glance and I missed that...

 

[Gale]

i think the cards must be somewhat straightforward or he wouldn't use cards. i don't think they're random variables, and i really want to make it so each one has the value written on it. the division at the beginning of those two rows makes me think I'm approaching it wrong.

 

[Kazza_765]

The other problem I'm having with this is that there are so many possible ways to look at this, and each one comes up with different numbers, that I don't know if I would even recognise the solution if I saw it.

For all I know I've stumbled upon it already and just dismissed it as another bunch of random numbers.

 

[Gale]

yeah, the latter puzzles haven't been as straightforward. before you'd see an answer and know you were right, it was just a matter of finding the answer. well, maybe this will seem straightforward once we get it. that's my hope at least.

 

[Gale]

ok, so I'm going to try to start over with my thinking.

first look, we have some cards, what can cards be? numbers usually. 13 cards per suit, 13*2 is 26, so you could use them for letters. can use them to represent patterns. think of poker hands. other card games...

ok next i see the sequences of numbers, no quickly discernable patterns...

source code gives operators for each card suit, and an element. gives directions to approach the ordering of the cards.

it seems blatantly obvious that the cards represent numbers that we're supposed to add subt mult and divide. then we get a sequence of numbers which logically we transform to letters like before.

soo... I'm still stuck where i was before starting over.

oh, i forgot about the words at the bottom... yeah, those seem useless. the start with zero seems obvious anyway cause all the other sequences started with zero. and unless by elite he meant 1337 i doubt its significant.

 

[Boxcutter]

i must admit that this one and the previous may have too many elements of confusion. however when i see your reasoning (especially some of gale's reasoning), i can't help but think that there is still hope left for you on this one. hence i will not be giving any more clues for now.

i hope you won't find future riddles as confusing as these two.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Wish I was in the same neck of the woods as you guys, only one thought this morning and that is elites refers to aces not the picture cards.

 

[Gale]

gosh its morning there already?? aye.. i need to sleep normal hours again sometime...

so some of my logic is promising... its a shame i posted so much then. have to figure out what i said that was good. just keep trying i guess.

 

[Kazza_765]

Hmm. Perhaps the numbers in the background are the values of the picture cards? That would explain "it all starts with zero. The rest are for the elite"

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

If no ones mentioned it your probably looking for the values of columns not rows, 3 sets of numbers 3 columns btw.

 

[Kazza_765]

The hint in the source code says that each row is a unit. But it also says read it in the x direction first, and then in the negative y, which seems to suggest both rows and columns are important.

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Oh yeah sorry I just read that. Might be worth a try solving vertically then reading off rows? Probably not though.

 

[Gale]

i dunno, I'm getting nowhere...

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Unfortunately I can't really try anything as I'm at work I'll have to look at the numbers later when I'm free to go over them. I'd imagine the numbers of cards would follow the blackjack system if no other system works i.e. 1-10 with aces being 1 or 11, can't take that for granted though.

I have the feeling someone will get desperate soon and try working in base 14

EDIT: Had a thought that the suits could indicate the operators hearts being add or whatever, just a thought, again no real time to experiment with it.

 

[Kazza_765]

Yeah, the operators are given in the source code as well. Hearts is +, spades /, diamond -, clubs *.

 

[Gokul43201]

I'd imagine the numbers of cards would follow the blackjack system if no other system works i.e. 1-10 with aces being 1 or 11, can't take that for granted though.

In bridge, we use a different point system : 1-10 = 0 pts, J=1 pt, Q=2 pts, K=3 pts, A=4 pts.

My best guess right now is that the answer is a 5-letter word, each letter formed from a row of cards.

The numbers in the background/foreground are confusing. It's not clear if they are relevant (serve as a key, maybe).

 

[Schrodinger's Dog]

Yeah, the operators are given in the source code as well. Hearts is +, spades /, diamond -, clubs *.

How do you access the source code btw, since I seem to be out of the loop, clues wise, might help if I know what your looking at from the start. Instead of guessing after the fact

Yeah that's where we started from Gokul, we figured North Bridge were clues from that game and tried the bridge system but that doesn't appear to give anything either?

EDIT:you can use the numbers as the initial numbers in the sequence 25,5,4,8,9 to start each row

so

25+2/3=9+4=13

1x5/5+7=8

4-5x2+4=2

8/8+5-4=2

until the last row

2+9/6-4=-2.16.. d'oh!

Not that the numbers equate to anything coherent anyway we have M,H,B,B,?

 

[Gokul43201]

How do you access the source code btw, since I seem to be out of the loop, clues wise, might help if I know what your looking at from the start. Instead of guessing after the fact

On your browser taskbar : View -> Page Source

 

[Gale]

anyone around? so the clues have changed... anyone have any new ideas? i don't see anything that really changes what i was thinking. only thing i really noted was he kept "the elite" so maybe that's a bigger clue than i thought. i noticed elite has 5 letters, 5 rows...? either way, I'm going to give it a look over after i eat.

 

[dduardo]

Boxcutter, I would actually remove the ".htm" text because it takes away from the mood of the puzzle. Dracula's Riddle isn't about the internet, it is about the puzzles.

-------------------

How about this:

A = 1
J = 11
Q = 12
K = 13

(0+12)/3+1 = 5
(0*11)/5+7 = 7
(0-5)*2+13 = 3
(0/8)+5-1 = 4
(0+12)/6-1 = 1

*Everything begins with zero"