Rigid body kinematics problem: finding the velocity of the center of mass

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around finding the velocity of the center of mass of a rigid body that has one point pivoted to a moving point. Participants explore the application of König's theorem and the use of Euler angles to describe the motion, while seeking expressions for kinetic energy and the velocity of the center of mass in relation to the pivot's motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks an expression for the kinetic energy of a rigid body using König's theorem and requires the velocity of the center of mass in terms of the pivot's velocity and Euler angles.
  • Another participant suggests calculating the problem from the perspective of the fixed point, proposing that the rotation around the fixed point and an "internal rotation" are independent and relevant for kinetic energy calculations.
  • A participant questions the interpretation of the fixed point, clarifying that the pivot is not truly fixed, which complicates the application of standard kinetic energy expressions.
  • One participant proposes that the velocity of the center of mass should be expressed as a sum of the relative velocity from the pivot and the pivot's velocity.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about the movement of the body and suggests using the pivot while seeking clarification on the pivot's relationship to the rotating body.
  • A later reply asks for more details about the pivot's motion in relation to the rotating body and inquires about the dependent and independent variables involved in the kinematic model.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of fixed point calculations and the nature of the pivot's motion, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights uncertainties regarding the definitions of fixed and moving points, the independence of rotational components, and the need for clarity on kinematic models. Some assumptions about the pivot's motion and its relationship to the rigid body are not fully resolved.

atat1tata
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I have to deal with the problem of finding an expression for the kinetic energy of a rigid body. One of its point is pivoted to a point that moves arbitrarily. So in order to find an expression for the kinetic energy I use König's theorem, but I need the velocity of the center of mass. I use Euler angles to describe the motion of the fixed frame of reference attached to the principal axes of the body, with the origin of the system in the center of mass of the body.

I know how to find an expression for \vec\omega in the fixed frame of reference, but what I lack is an expression for the velocity of the center of mass (let's say it's a distance l from the pivot) in terms of the velocity of the pivot, the Euler angles and their derivativesThis should be a common problem but I have seen no reference to it in the Internet. So I would be thankful if someone suggests me a book/website/reference to these kinds of problems
 
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Instead of calculating everything in the center of mass system, what about calculating this in the system of the fixed point? To calculate the kinetic energy, it is sufficient to have two values: The rotation around the fixed point, and one thing which I would call "internal rotation" (around an axis through the fixed point).
I would expect that both are independent of each other, and without external forces, both values stay the same. The third degree of freedom is irrelevant here, as it just defines the plane where the rotation happens.
 
Maybe I didn't understand. For fixed point you intend the pivot? The problem is that it is not fixed, really, so I thought that all the expression for kinetic energy around a fixed point do not apply here
 
Possibly I should get an expression of \vec v_{CM} with its components in the inertial frame of reference basis that should be a sum of the relative velocity of the center of mass from the pivot and the velocity of the pivot
 
Oh sorry, I misread your post, I thought the other part of the body could move freely. I would still use this pivot, I think.
 
Perhaps you can describe your problem a bit more. Is the pivot axis fixed with respect to the rotating body, i.e. body frame? If so, do you have a kinematic model for how the pivot axis moves in your reference frame? What are your dependent and independent variables?
 

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