Stargazing Roberto's Indonesian Punggur Meteorite: My 2021 Collection Addition

[davenn]

A new meteorite into my collection from Roberto Vargas (USA) -
The Indonesian Punggur, first fall for 2021 (Jan 28)
1.2g of awesomeness, high iron breccia
Thanks so much buddy, much appreciated

 

[sophiecentaur]

A new meteorite into my collection from Roberto Vargas (USA)

That guy is a real collector. I just looked at his FB posts.

 

[davenn]

That guy is a real collector. I just looked at his FB posts.

Yes, he is an avid collector, does some traveling to sites to get new material.
I have purchased from him several times, but he isn't the person I have got the most meteorites from,
That distinction falls to Topher Spinnato ( you will find him on FB), who is very proactive in getting people
into meteorites.

Dave

 

[sophiecentaur]

I have purchased from him several times

I'll do my best not to get too far into that stuff or the family will starve.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Yes, he is an avid collector, does some traveling to sites to get new material.

Not as much as the meteor did!

Why aren't there private/commercial trips to Antarctica to pick up some meteors? Academics have gotten hundreds per week. At even a dollar per gram, this looks economically feasible.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Why aren't there private/commercial trips to Antarctica to pick up some meteors?

Wouldn't that go against the principle of not exploiting Antarctica? The carbon footprint of a 1g piece of meteorite, sitting in the drawer of some 'collector' would be hard to justify. I have the same problem with 'trippers' watching penguins and whales, whilst belching out needless CO2 etc.. Is it really that necessary?

Likewise for moon rocks, just for the collector market.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Wouldn't that go against the principle of not exploiting Antarctica?

Does that make it illegal?

whilst belching out needless CO2 etc.

Does that make it illegal? And is "needless CO2" worse for looking at penguins than looking at pyramids, or hobnobbing with folks at Davos or Cannes?

Likewise for moon rocks

Those are owned by the people who went and got them.

 

[DaveC426913]

A friend long ago, who owned a museum, showed me how you can look for meteorites in stone walls around farms - esp. in England - because the farmers have spent centuries clearing their fields of rocks.

Always wondered what the chances are.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Does that make it illegal?
Does that make it illegal? And is "needless CO2" worse for looking at penguins than looking at pyramids, or hobnobbing with folks at Davos or Cannes?
Those are owned by the people who went and got them.

I was expecting some payback.
Legality is not the point but you know that.

A lot of our travel is actually not something that we need to do. The cost of Antarctic travel is relatively high because the distances and necessary special infrastructure are great, the required levels of safety are higher. Going to Davos or Cannes is fairly innocuous for people who live nearby. Flying there from LA should be something that should involve some self-examination. "Is your journey really necessary?"

 

[Eric Bretschneider]

I was expecting some payback.
Legality is not the point but you know that.

A lot of our travel is actually not something that we need to do. The cost of Antarctic travel is relatively high because the distances and necessary special infrastructure are great, the required levels of safety are higher. Going to Davos or Cannes is fairly innocuous for people who live nearby. Flying there from LA should be something that should involve some self-examination. "Is your journey really necessary?"

The internet isn't something we really need. We managed as a species for quite some time without it, but you're using it here. lol

While I understand your question, the problem is that few people these days understand the difference between "wants" and "needs". I've tried to teach my children the importance of that difference. Guess I will know if I was successful in a few years.

 

[Vanadium 50]

A lot of our travel is actually not something that we need to do.

True. Nobody needs to spend the last few moments of Grandma's life by her side. Let her die alone. She's unimportant anyway. Probably non-essential. Maybe even deplorable. But, back to the issue at hand, I fail to see why this particular use of travel sets you off. Sending 10 people to Antarctica surely has a smaller footprint than sending 10,000 people from Hollywood to Cannes.

In any event, there are plenty of people who produce products or services that I find objectionable. I wish they wouldn't, but that doesn't change anything. So why not meteorites by the bucketful?

 

[DaveC426913]

The carbon footprint of a 1g piece of meteorite, sitting in the drawer of some 'collector' would be hard to justify.

Advancement of science. What is the carbon footprint of a particle accelerator 9km across?

 

[sophiecentaur]

I fail to see why this particular use of travel sets you off. Sending 10 people to Antarctica surely has a smaller footprint than sending 10,000 people from Hollywood to Cannes.

Both are questionable unless the individual journeys fulfil useful purposes. I don't actually see tourism as particularly 'useful'. People seem to think they deserve to travel. I wonder about the 'deserving'. A pupil of mine told me he'd been to Florida for his holiday (from UK). I asked him where he'd stayed. He replied "In a hotel". A lot of wasted carbon there imo.

Advancement of science. What is the carbon footprint of a particle accelerator 9km across?

Ask, rather about cost / benefit. Who would benefit from the 1g stone in a drawer? I know that's a killjoy reaction but knowledge and education sometimes do and sometimes don't involve heavy carbon use. Someone owning something or actually having been to Baffin Island don't actually improve knowledge or education much. The Internet and TV `can do the job of many carbon generating journeys.

 

[pinball1970]

I was expecting some payback.
Legality is not the point but you know that.

A lot of our travel is actually not something that we need to do. The cost of Antarctic travel is relatively high because the distances and necessary special infrastructure are great, the required levels of safety are higher. Going to Davos or Cannes is fairly innocuous for people who live nearby. Flying there from LA should be something that should involve some self-examination. "Is your journey really necessary?"

I received this alert today funnily enough

https://scitechdaily.com/?p=116752

From this paper.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/14/eabc1008.full

 

[pinball1970]

A friend long ago, who owned a museum, showed me how you can look for meteorites in stone walls around farms - esp. in England - because the farmers have spent centuries clearing their fields of rocks.

Always wondered what the chances are.

I'll keep my eye out, there could be some gems out there!

 

[sophiecentaur]

I received this alert today funnily enough

https://scitechdaily.com/?p=116752

From this paper.

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/7/14/eabc1008.full

I'll keep my eye out, there could be some gems out there!

Guys. You just amplified my point. Great info and a ‘warm feeling’ about the Antarctic arrival and ditto about the old walls. Acquiring samples of either would be equally satisfying but the warm glow of low carbon could be better value.
I feel the same buzz about wildlife found in my own garden. Is the buzz of disturbing yet another lowland gorilla really worth it?

 

[pinball1970]

Guys. You just amplified my point. Great info and a ‘warm feeling’ about the Antarctic arrival and ditto about the old walls. Acquiring samples of either would be equally satisfying but the warm glow of low carbon could be better value.
I feel the same buzz about wildlife found in my own garden. Is the buzz of disturbing yet another lowland gorilla really worth it?

If they found a meteor in the Antarctic that gave us a an important detail regarding the formation of the solar system or abiogenesis would you think that was justified?
It would be great if all the neat stuff was found naturally in gardens and dry stone walls with zero impact on the environment.

 

[sophiecentaur]

If they found a meteor in the Antarctic that gave us a an important detail regarding the formation of the solar system or abiogenesis would you think that was justified?
It would be great if all the neat stuff was found naturally in gardens and dry stone walls with zero impact on the environment.

I thought I had made it quite clear that I see a massive difference between Scientific research and rubbernecking. Sending a team with a legit scientific purpose in Antarctica (minimal impact etc.) is hardly the same as fleets of tourist ships, full of camera toting rich folks.
I am suggesting that restraint, on a personal level is a good thing for the planet. That’s hardly excessively tree-hugging, is it?

 

[pinball1970]

I thought I had made it quite clear that I see a massive difference between Scientific research and rubbernecking. Sending a team with a legit scientific purpose in Antarctica (minimal impact etc.) is hardly the same as fleets of tourist ships, full of camera toting rich folks.
I am suggesting that restraint, on a personal level is a good thing for the planet. That’s hardly excessively tree-hugging, is it?

Yes I agree with you on that, I was just referring to research.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Yes I agree with you on that, I was just referring to research.

We are in accord then. Idle curiosity and the satisfaction of 'having been there' are as nothing, compared with the destruction of delicate environments that many (particularly high end) 'eco holidays' can cause. It worries me that so many people just don't seem to care about the results of their actions.

 

[DaveC426913]

Idle curiosity and the satisfaction of 'having been there' are as nothing, compared with the destruction of delicate environments that many (particularly high end) 'eco holidays' can cause.

Do you account for the correlation between those interested in visiting delicate environments and those interested in preserving such delicate environments?

It would be awesome if millions of people simply donated time and money to worthy causes while keeping inside their homes, but that doesn't tend to be the way people work.

It would be pretty weird for a nature lover to donate money to a conservation area that he never visited.Time and time again, I believe it's been demonstrated that tourism is one of the major sources for funding for preservation of delicate environments.

 

[Andy Resnick]

A friend long ago, who owned a museum, showed me how you can look for meteorites in stone walls around farms - esp. in England - because the farmers have spent centuries clearing their fields of rocks.

Always wondered what the chances are.

And I've always wondered why meteorites can *always* be found in craters. Amazing coincidence! :)

 

[Ibix]

And I've always wondered why meteorites can *always* be found in craters. Amazing coincidence! :)

Obviously, craters emit some kind of force that attracts meteorites.

 

[sophiecentaur]

@DaveC426913 is that claimed correlation justification for trampling on sensitive environments? Going to Antarctica just because you’re rich and want to just be there is equivalent to cutting up a puppy to see how it works. You say that’s human nature and it probably is. But should it get our approval?!
Is it really true that tourism companies pay for research? That wouldn’t suit your average shareholder. Game parks will get a small share of profits, I’m sure but (of course) it’s politics that drives low income locals and allows big business to over exploit fringe areas.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Obviously, craters emit some kind of force that attracts meteorites.

The Moon must be chock full of meteorites then! You could bring them home, along with Moon rocks, and pay for the trip. Forget mining for useful metals etc..

 

[dlgoff]

my collection

How about some pictures of your collection?

 

[sophiecentaur]

How about some pictures of your collection?

Saucy postcards?

 

[davenn]

How about some pictures of your collection?

Will get a few photos done

 

[davenn]

And I've always wondered why meteorites can *always* be found in craters. Amazing coincidence! :)

actually this is not a correct statement ... really only applies to those that either are VERY large or somewhat smaller ones that fall on very soft ground. Even a 300 - 500 kg space rocks rarely makes a crater, smaller ones almost never.
The 66 ton Hoba ( Namibia) iron meteorite has no assoc. crater. the "hole" it sits in was excavated by man.
The main reason for this is that following their high speed fiery entry, they slow considerably and enter "dark flight" and fall the last 30km odd to the ground at terminal velocity
It's really only the massive rocks, that the air resistance doesn't slow them down significantly, that punch their way through and hit the ground at near full speed and a crater is born.

Of course there is no slowing down with space rocks hitting the moon and pretty much all cause craters

 

[davenn]

How about some pictures of your collection?

been in hospital all week, when I get out, I will do some photos