News Ron Paul voted the most popular speaker at CPAC

[BobG]

Well then what about the people in the town that the toxic chemicals are being shipped too? They would likely have a problem with chemical waste being dumped into their landfill as well and they would not tolerate the business dumping chemicals into their landfill dump. The local people would have a problem with toxic chemicals being dumped into the landfill because they would have access to information that would give them the knowledge that the company is engaging in deceptive practices by dumping toxic chemicals into another landfill and thus bad publicity would be generated for the company and hence they would lose profits. Don't forget this is the information age and if business were polluting in one area of the world but not in another area of the world , people will find out and they would not tolerate it.

This is where the idea of boycotts seriously breaks down. Only a very small percentage of people are more concerned by what you do to "them" than by what you charge to "us". Make the price cheap enough, and hiring child labor in Thailand is fine with us.

We're small group primates and we're not affected by what happens to people outside our group nearly as strongly as we are by what happens to people inside our group.

 

[noblegas]

You misread (and you actually live somewhere that gets snow every day?) The efficiency of clearing snow off of city streets is strongly related to how often that city gets snow. Just recalling the complaints about the ineptitude of Washington, DC in clearing city streets - how many workers should they hire to clear snow off the streets?

I don't understand the point you are trying to make . You think that just because it snows everyday in a city that it should be the government's job to handle the issue of clearing snow off the roads and that they are more effective at handling such a situation? There are human needs that need to be fundamentally met everyday such as eating food but the food industry is decentralized and that need is met by our relatively free market.

The point is that there are always trade offs and sometimes the most efficient solution accepts a certain number of potholes, a certain number of traffic jams, etc. Perfect is often the enemy of good.

Who ever said that the free market would be was perfect. the Free market is not perfect becauce the free market is created by human beings and humans beings by nature are a flawed species. The most efficient solution accepts a certain number of potholes and a certain number of traffic jams? So then if we follow your logic ,can a school accept a certain number of incompetent teachers or a certain number of failed results by students just because everybody can have an equal access to education? Quota's have nothing to due with efficiency , efficiency is about finding the best solution to the possible problem, not finding just a solution to the problem.

 

[noblegas]

We're small group primates and we're not affected by what happens to people outside our group nearly as strongly as we are by what happens to people inside our group.

We live in a more global world than we ever have throughout human history because we live in the information age . Sure people would be more concerned about what happens in their local environment than the global environment , but that does not mean that people would not show any concern for the problems and plights of other people in other region of the world. Otherwise , private charities would not exist and therefore , there would not be an urged to promote concerts like Live aid , we are the world, and the horrible reindition of the 'we are the wrong' concert to assist the people in Haiti. I think the concerns for other people will continue to grow as the global environment begins to feel more like a local environment.

I didn't wsnt this dicussion to change into why I think the free market is better than socialism ' type discussion, I sort of wanted to continue to talk about the discussion of the conservative movementand what changes would need to occur in the conservativism in order to wipe off the mark the neocons left on it.

This is where the idea of boycotts seriously breaks down. Only a very small percentage of people are more concerned by what you do to "them" than by what you charge to "us". Make the price cheap enough, and hiring child labor in Thailand is fine with us.

I don't think most people would boycott now because they believe that the government would take care of our environmental hazards and so there is no need to boycott. However, if an environmental agency provided by the government did not exist , then their would be growing numbers of people concerned with the environmental hazards produced by businesses and their would be a incentive to boycott. Sort of similar to the reason why people don't donate to charities now since we have a welfare system and their is no need for most americans to donate to charities , even though americans are the most charatiable people on the planet. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-25-charitable_N.htm

 

[BobG]

You think that just because it snows everyday in a city that it...

The point was gauging the efficiency of a government. The example was one where it does not snow every day - instead it snows sporadically and unpredictably.

 

[mheslep]

. Believe me if Fox news is even saying that ron paul won the debate at CPAC, a man they excluded from the republican debates ,then its legit.

Believe you? The video says nothing about Paul winning a 'debate'. It reports a truism, Paul won a simple straw poll, and then Fox then goes out its way to comment that the poll doesn't mean much, the crowd being made up of a bunch of college student Paul supporters, etc.

 

[Proton Soup]

That certainly says a lot about where the direction the conservative movement is heading in. Ron paul seems to have gotten people my age thrilled and euthiasitic about the concepts of liberty . I am surprised that he beat out mitt romney and sarah palin? THoughts?

Paul is more of a libertarian. that certainly appeals to people your age that spend a lot of time on internet message boards. young people in general? I'm not as sure about that. but it certainly appeals to a few young people that have read Ayn Rand, and other fiscally conservative, socially liberal types.

 

[mheslep]

Periodically I fine myself joining Paul on some of his ideas. Recently he's championed some visibility and transparency rules for the Federal Reserve Board that has gotten some backers in the House. More reporting seems prudent to me. The Fed has to answer to someone.

But then Paul gets a chance to hold forth at length and the crackpot surfaces. Here he is yesterday going on to Bernanke in conference about how the Fed financed Saddam Hussein, Watergate and soon had secret plans to bail out Greece. Bernanke, king of the restrained statement, calls the charges 'bizarre'. Next Paul will be reporting secret handshakes.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...alls-ron-pauls-allegations-absolutely-bizarre

 

[noblegas]

Believe you? The video says nothing about Paul winning a 'debate'. It reports a truism, Paul won a simple straw poll, and then Fox then goes out its way to comment that the poll doesn't mean much, the crowd being made up of a bunch of college student Paul supporters, etc.

Yes. Someone did note that 18-25 years mainly attended the CPAC event but not any other age group. But that says that there are a high concentration of libertarian oriented and paleo/constitutional conservatives that are distinguishing themselves from the neocons and likely that trend will probably continue.

 

[noblegas]

Periodically I fine myself joining Paul on some of his ideas. Recently he's championed some visibility and transparency rules for the Federal Reserve Board that has gotten some backers in the House. More reporting seems prudent to me. The Fed has to answer to someone.

But then Paul gets a chance to hold forth at length and the crackpot surfaces. Here he is yesterday going on to Bernanke in conference about how the Fed financed Saddam Hussein, Watergate and soon had secret plans to bail out Greece. Bernanke, king of the restrained statement, calls the charges 'bizarre'. Next Paul will be reporting secret handshakes.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...alls-ron-pauls-allegations-absolutely-bizarre

I don't know if their is validity to the claim that the federal reserve is financing saddam huessin because I have not research into this myself, but the government has engaged in acts of secrecy in the past such as the CIA toppling the government in Iran and COINTELPRO elliminating people they saw as a threat to their agenda, and therefore I would not automatically discount the possiblity that the federal reserve might finance Saddam's regime if the FBI secretly tries to take out members of the black panther party and hippies in the 1960's. But I would form an opinion since I have not examined the issue myself.

 

[projektMayhem]

.

The true power of the people lies within our government, which is of the people, by the people, and for the people. This is the best way in which we the people exert our power over greed and corruption that is inherent to big business.

I'm sorry but I have to take issue with this. The greed and corruption inherent in big business has poisoned our political system. Until we limit politicians to only accepting donations from living breathing citizens (plus a set amount of tax payer dollars) the corporations will be able to exert enormous influence over the political process.

 

[DivingMullah]

I like Ron Paul...no really...

Libertarians are sure interesting...Legalize Prostitution, Pot, and get rid of CIA... who can go wrong with that. But he is a novelty when all said and done.

He is like Kansas. You hear about it once in a while, but you never wanne go there for a visit.

Diving Mullah

 

[noblegas]

The true power of the people lies within our government, which is of the people, by the people, and for the people. This is the best way in which we the people exert our power over greed and corruption that is inherent to big business.

greed and corruption are inherent in government too, if not more so than big businesses (who receivied benefits and subsidies from the government) , because government is not really held accountable for their actions when compared to business, since for example , if congress has an approval rating of 11 percent ,members of congress would likely get elected again But if say the CEO at Disney hires a CEO that wants to market Porn to kids rather crappy sounded boybands, kids and parents would probably highly dispproved of this actions and stop buying disney products in droves and therefore they would be out of business or they or fired the CEO conducting this action.(or possibly they would try to appeal to the single male population and entirely do away with the kiddie market ). Thats an example of accountability

 

[Evo]

greed and corruption are inherent in government too, if not more so than big businesses (who receivied benefits and subsidies from the government) , because government is not really held accountable for their actions when compared to business, since for example , if congress has an approval rating of 11 percent ,members of congress would likely get elected again But if say the CEO at Disney hires a CEO that wants to market Porn to kids rather crappy sounded boybands, kids and parents would probably highly dispproved of this actions and stop buying disney products in droves and therefore they would be out of business or they or fired the CEO conducting this action.(or possibly they would try to appeal to the single male population and entirely do away with the kiddie market ). Thats an example of accountability

This has gotten too ridiculous to continue.