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News Two world maps: The mission and the popular vote.

  1. Nov 2, 2008 #1

    Hans de Vries

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    -- 2000: --- The neocon mission -----
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/index.html



    -- 2008: The world's popular vote --
    http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results




    The Start, June 3, 1997: The statement of principles.
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm
    Signed by people like Jeb Bush, Dick Cheney, I. Lewis Libby, Dan Quayle, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz



    The bold "vision" including obstruction of international justice:
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/globaljun1400.htm


    Confusing global leadership with waging wars:
    http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf


    Sarah Palin and Joe the Plumber are apparently the last resort to extend this grant mission
    further into the 21st century with McCain's vision of the 100 year war against radical Islam.
    (when still straight talking in public)



    Regards, Hans
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 2, 2008 #2

    Hurkyl

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    Er... did you have something to say?
     
  4. Nov 2, 2008 #3

    Hans de Vries

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    The New American century was a neo conservative think tank which laid the base for the Bush
    politics of the last eight years.

    The global verdict is in the second link: http://www.iftheworldcouldvote.com/results


    Regards, Hans.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  5. Nov 2, 2008 #4

    Hans de Vries

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    But it's not all that negative. I'm sure the world would love to welcome and embrace the US again. :smile:


    Regards, Hans
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  6. Nov 2, 2008 #5

    jal

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    Cough cough ... All of the above ... was before TSHTF.
     
  7. Nov 2, 2008 #6

    Hans de Vries

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    They wrote the letter below immediately after TSHTF. They must have had a crystal ball


    http://www.newamericancentury.org/Bushletter.htm

    Point for point:

    -The war with Iraq began in 2003 (takes longer then planned)
    -The war with Hezbollah was in 2006 (bad planning also, they had to send more missiles halfway)
    -The policy against the Palestinian Authority was put in place.
    -The US defense budget... You can call that effective lobbying.....


    Regards, Hans
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  8. Nov 2, 2008 #7

    Hurkyl

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    But again, I don't see what your point is. You appear to be just doing an info dump -- and a discussion forum isn't the appropriate place for that.
     
  9. Nov 2, 2008 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    Hans, obviously you have a point, you just need to explain what it is.

    It is interesting that it comes down to approximately 40% of the US, against the world. One would think this might start to sink in.
     
  10. Nov 2, 2008 #9

    Hans de Vries

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    Why would this not be a subject for discussion? I ran into this stuff lately and felt a need
    in sharing it. If it's an info dump then you presume that everybody agrees and there's no
    discussion needed. I don't feel that's the case.


    Regards, Hans
     
  11. Nov 2, 2008 #10

    Hurkyl

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    I have no idea how accurate or precise this poll is supposed to be. Do you have any information regarding that?


    I never said it wasn't. What I'm saying is that you should start it, rather than fishing for reactions from others.
     
  12. Nov 2, 2008 #11

    Hans de Vries

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    If it sinks in enough to keep it at 40% for the coming days then that's a big relieve :smile:
    Hopefully the rest follows.


    Regards, Hans
     
  13. Nov 2, 2008 #12

    Ivan Seeking

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    The overwhelming popularity of Obama internationally has been widely reported by the media for months. His crowd of 200,000 in Germany is a good example. They were literally having a giant party and waiving American flags. When was the last time that 200,000 Germans were seen waiving American flags; never?
     
  14. Nov 2, 2008 #13

    Hans de Vries

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    it's certainly not scientific, but profesional polls show 90% like results for Obama in Western
    European countries, so it seems indicative.

    Results for each country must come from people who's IP-number is registered in that
    particular country. It's not so easy for individuals to influence results in other countries.
    In principle they should keep the IP-number to inhibit more than one vote, otherwise
    somebody can vote again after trowing away the cookie.

    Point taken.


    Regards, Hans
     
  15. Nov 2, 2008 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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    Well, no matter what happens, you can be sure that many of us have never tried harder to elect the right man. Also, for us [my wife and I] and many Americans, sending Obama money has become as ordinary an event as making the house payment.
     
  16. Nov 2, 2008 #15

    Hans de Vries

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    I lived in the San Francisco Bay area from 1998 to 2007 and there's a good change I'll
    go back to the US. So a significant part of me is actually American.... It's a personal thing.

    When I went to the US it was overwhelmingly popular. I would like that to return and
    I believe it will.


    Regards, Hans
     
  17. Nov 2, 2008 #16

    russ_watters

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    All that proves is that the world's interests are not aligned with the US's. Not only should that be unsurprising, but also, I don't care who they want to be President. It doesn't matter.
     
  18. Nov 2, 2008 #17

    russ_watters

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    What the heck does that mean? Every election year, many people are fanatically supportive of their chosen candidate and those people always think their candidate is "the right man" (except when he's Hillary, of course).
    One thing that I'm a little surprised hasn't gotten a lot of press is that issue. Democrats are passionate, more passionate than Republicans. And because of that, they give more money. That is probably the big difference maker in this election.
     
  19. Nov 2, 2008 #18

    Astronuc

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    Quite the contrary. It proves that the interests of the majorities of the US and of the world, such as justice, peace, prosperity (particularly for the majority), are aligned.
     
  20. Nov 2, 2008 #19
    I do think that electing Obama will be an improvement but I can't imagine that it will be anywhere near an end to the U.S. messing around in the affairs of other countries in underhanded ways. That stuff certainly didn't start with the Bush administration.

    The U.S. pushing around other people around the world for our own selfish reasons, past and future, is the biggest threat to the future safety of Americans in the 21st century... we should not let our guard down even if Obama is elected.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2008
  21. Nov 2, 2008 #20
    I would like to know the correlation between how good a US president was and how much popularity he had outside US ..
     
  22. Nov 2, 2008 #21

    russ_watters

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    Oh please, Astronuc, that is such self rightous BS. People who want Obama want peace and prosperity, people who want McCain want war and recession, blah, blah, blah. Get off your high horse.

    It should be obvious what the real reason that foreiners support Obama: it is strictly a matter of isolationist vs interventionalist foreign policy. It has nothing to do with wanting what's best for the US.
     
  23. Nov 2, 2008 #22
    It's just a nation with ordinary people with self interests and greed. It just happened to emerge as a super power one time and would die away sooner or later (like all other past super - powers) .. and I guess Americans themselves would bring its fall.
     
  24. Nov 2, 2008 #23
    Awww, it's simple! You just take the Gross Domestic Presidential Gooditude Index and cross-reference those figures with the Global Longitudinal Popularosity Metric... :tongue2:

    But seriously, you're right... I would really like to see some analysis on that front too. I'm surprised that I haven't seen a news story like that what with all the making hay about Obama being a celebrity. The only one I happen to have read about is Teddy Roosevelt, who was very popular in Europe, I guess.
     
  25. Nov 2, 2008 #24
    I would say that it's a matter of wanting the U.S. to be a responsible and law-abiding member of the community of nations. Recent behavior of this country has sought to gird selfish and myopic domestic interests at the expense of our national honor and at the expense of ending some international conventions of war that have been in place since WWII (not to mention at the literal financial expense of future generations of Americans.) Many people at the McCain end of the political spectrum act quite ready to flush those sorts of things down the toilet again; in that sense, their interest in peace and prosperity is limited.

    Whether that sort of thing is unrelated to what's best for the U.S., I think it would be very short-sighted to say it is not.
     
  26. Nov 2, 2008 #25
    I think Bush wasn't popular outside US during the second elections. If Teddy Roosevelt was a good president and Bush was infact unpopular during the last elections, then it seems reasonable to assume that Barack would also be a good one if elected.
     
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