Rudin Thm 2.41: E Closed & Bounded if Every Inf Subset Has a Lmt Pt

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Theorem 2.41 from Walter Rudin's "Principles of Mathematical Analysis," which states that if a set E in ℝk has the property that every infinite subset has a limit point in E, then E is closed and bounded. Participants express confusion regarding the proof, particularly the claim that a constructed set S has no limit points in ℝk.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assertion that the set S has no limit points in ℝk and proposes considering a ball of radius 1 around a potential limit point.
  • Another participant develops a proof showing that if p is a limit point of S, then there can be at most n points of S within a neighborhood around p, leading to the conclusion that p cannot be a limit point.
  • Some participants express that the proof is not as obvious as Rudin suggests, highlighting a common sentiment regarding Rudin's style of presentation.
  • One participant appreciates Rudin's approach, viewing it as a challenge that encourages deeper understanding of the material.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of the proof presented, but there is disagreement regarding the clarity and obviousness of certain claims made by Rudin. The discussion remains unresolved about the perception of what is considered "obvious" in mathematical proofs.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the proof relies on the construction of the set S and its properties, which may not be immediately clear to all readers. There is an acknowledgment of Rudin's tendency to omit details that some find necessary for understanding.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying real analysis, particularly those grappling with the nuances of proofs in mathematical literature and the expectations of rigor in such texts.

Dschumanji
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I am currently reading Principles of Mathematical Analysis by Walter Rudin. I am a bit confused with theorem 2.41. He is trying to show at one point that if E is a set in ℝk and if every infinite subset of E has a limit point in E, then E is closed and bounded.

The proof starts by assuming that E is not bounded. He then says that if this is the case, then E contains points xn such that |xn| > n for each positive integer n. He then constructs a set S that contains all these points xn. Next he says "The set S ... is infinite and clearly has no limit point in ℝk..."

I don't see how it is obvious that there is no limit point in ℝk.
 
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Dschumanji said:
I don't see how it is obvious that there is no limit point in ℝk.

Suppose S has a limit point and consider the ball of radius 1 about this point. Does it contain infinitely many elements of S?
 
jgens said:
Suppose S has a limit point and consider the ball of radius 1 about this point. Does it contain infinitely many elements of S?
I see where you are heading. I came up with a proof using a similar idea:

Let p \in ℝk and suppose that it is a limit point of S.

There exists a positive integer n such that n ≤ |p| < n+1. Let C be the set of all y \in ℝk such that |y| < n+1. C is an open set and p \in C, so there exists a neighborhood N around p such that N \subset C.

Due to the construction of S, there can be at most n points of S in C and thus there can be at most n points in N. Since n is a finite number, p cannot be a limit point (theorem 2.20 of Rudin).

This shows there are no limit points in ℝk and thus no limit points in E. Therefore E must be bounded.

I believe that this proof is correct, but it hardly seems obvious.
 
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Dschumanji said:
I believe that this proof is correct, but it hardly seems obvious.

Your proof is fine. Try not to worry about people like Rudin claiming that things are obvious. The more you learn and the more you get a feel for a particular subject, the more obvious things become.
 
jgens said:
Your proof is fine. Try not to worry about people like Rudin claiming that things are obvious. The more you learn and the more you get a feel for a particular subject, the more obvious things become.
Thanks for the support!

It seems Rudin likes to use proof by intimidation more than anything. :-p
 
Dschumanji said:
It seems Rudin likes to use proof by intimidation more than anything.

This is actually something I like about Rudin. I always took it as a challenge to understand the material well enough to get why Rudin claimed something was obvious and this helped me learn the material properly. Just keep filling in all the details he leaves out and it will all seem obvious to you soon enough.
 

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