Rule to integrate a function with respect to its derivative

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the integration of a function with respect to its own derivative, specifically exploring the mathematical formulation of integrals like ##\int f(x) d(f'(x))## and ##\int y d\left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)##. Participants examine potential methods and implications of such integrals, including substitution techniques and the existence of general solutions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about rules for integrating a function with respect to its derivative.
  • Another participant proposes that the integral can be expressed as ##\int f(x) d(f'(x)) = f(x)f'(x) - \int (f'(x)^2)dx##, noting that this leads to an integral of a function squared, which lacks a general solution without knowing ##f'(x)##.
  • A different participant suggests using substitution by setting ##u=f'(x)##, leading to the transformation of the integral into ##\int f(x)f''(x)dx##, indicating that the possibility of finding a closed form depends on the specific function ##f##.
  • Another participant acknowledges that while ##\int f(x) d(f(x))## has a general solution of ##\frac{1}{2}(f(x))^2##, they express uncertainty about applying this to the derivative, concluding that there appears to be no general solution for the integral with respect to the derivative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the possibility of finding a general solution for the integral of a function with respect to its derivative. There is no consensus on a definitive method or outcome.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations regarding the dependence on the specific form of the function ##f## and the unresolved nature of the mathematical steps involved in the integration process.

Bill_Nye_Fan
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Hello all, I was just wondering if there is any rules for integrating a function with respect to it's own derivative.

That is to say ##\int _{ }^{ }f\left(x\right)d\left(f'\left(x\right)\right)## or ##\int _{ }^{ }yd\left(\frac{dy}{dx}\right)##

Thank you in advance for your time :)
 
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I came until ##\int f(x) d(f'(x)) = f(x)f'(x) - \int (f'(x)^2)dx## so its the integral of a function squared, which has no general solution without knowing ##f'(x)##.
 
We can use substitution. Set ##u=f'(x)##. Then ##\frac{d(f'(x))}{dx}=\frac{du}{dx}=f''(x)## so in the integral we can replace ##d(f'(x))##, which is ##du##, by ##f''(x)dx##. That gives us:
$$\int f(x)f''(x)dx$$
Whether a closed form can be found for the integral depends on ##f##.
 
Thank you both for your help :)

I knew that ##\int _{ }^{ }f\left(x\right)d\left(f\left(x\right)\right)## has the general solution of ##\frac{1}{2}\left(f\left(x\right)\right)^2## regardless of what the function actually is. I was curious as to whether there would be a way to apply this while integrating with respect to the functions derivative instead, but it looks like there's no general solution for this.
 

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