Searching for a Lost PhD Thesis on Black Holes

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the search for a specific PhD thesis related to black holes, particularly one that discusses the relationship between the information added to a black hole and its surface area. The scope includes theoretical concepts in black hole physics and historical context regarding early papers on the holographic principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant recalls a PhD thesis that discusses dropping particles into a black hole and measuring the information added, which is proportional to the change in the black hole's surface area.
  • Another participant points out that no one has an actual black hole in a lab, suggesting that the original inquiry may be based on theoretical rather than experimental work.
  • Several participants reference related theoretical papers by Jacob D. Bekenstein that discuss the relationship between entropy and black hole area, indicating a connection to the original inquiry.
  • A participant clarifies that the paper sought is theoretical and likely one of the first to suggest concepts related to the holographic principle.
  • There is uncertainty regarding the exact author, title, and details of the paper, making it challenging to locate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the paper in question is theoretical and related to black hole physics, but there is no consensus on the specific paper or its details. Multiple competing views exist regarding the nature of the work and its experimental implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants express limitations in their knowledge of the paper's specifics, including the author, title, journal, and date. The discussion reflects a reliance on historical context and theoretical frameworks without resolving the uncertainties involved.

BiGyElLoWhAt
Gold Member
Messages
1,637
Reaction score
138
TL;DR
See title
The paper is reasonably old and was written as a phd thesis by (I believe) a man from china. It was basically the first paper on the subject and in it he effectively (from what I understand) dropped particles into a black hole, counting the information added, and saw that the black hole changed in size such that the information contained by the particles measured in bits of order plank length was proportional to the change in surface area of the black hole. I want to try to read this paper, but cannot remember the name of the author nor the title. Google searching, skimming the holographic principle wikipedia page, information theory page all provided no results.

If anyone knows the paper I'm referring to and would either link it, drop the name, or at least the authors name, I would appreciate it.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
BiGyElLoWhAt said:
in it he effectively (from what I understand) dropped particles into a black hole

Nobody has an actual black hole in their lab.

I suspect you are referring to experiments where sound waves in a fluid are used to create a state which has a sort of "horizon" that has some similarities with a black hole horizon:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_black_hole
 
As Peter points out, nobody has a black hole in the lab. So you know neither the author, nor the title, nor the journal, nor the date, nor exactly what the paper is about.

It will be tough to find.
 
Here are related papers about dropping a box into a black hole. The area of the black hole should increase in proportion to the entropy in the box. It's a quantum phenomenon, so the area can be thought of as being in Planck units.

https://qig.itp.uni-hannover.de/~giulini/papers/BlackHoleSeminar/Bekenstein_PRD9_1974.pdf
Generalized second law of thermodynamics in black-hole physics
Jacob D. Bekenstein

https://arxiv.org/abs/1511.03665v1
Bekenstein's generalized second law of thermodynamics: The role of the hoop conjecture
Shahar Hod
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BiGyElLoWhAt
But from the description the OP is looking for some sort of experimental paper.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: BiGyElLoWhAt
Yes I should have specified I suppose... It is a theoretical paper. From what I understand it was the first paper that suggested the holographic principal (which it wasn't called at the time).

I've been on a physics history kick lately. Trying to look at some of the first papers on various topics. This one has been on my mind and I just can't remember what it is. I am fairly certain this specific paper was written by a Chinese man as his PhD thesis.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
As Peter points out, nobody has a black hole in the lab. So you know neither the author, nor the title, nor the journal, nor the date, nor exactly what the paper is about.

It will be tough to find.
I know that no one has a black hole in their lab... The premise of the paper is (theoretically) drop particles into a black hole, count the quantum information added to the black hole, calculate the changes in the black hole, discover that the information added is proportional to the change in surface are. I know I'm asking for a lot, I remember just stumbling on it back when I wasn't very interested in it, which is unfortunate. I can't remember where. I might have to rewatch some Susskind lectures, it might have been brought up in one of them or maybe not. I wish I knew. It's been bugging me for a while.
 
BiGyElLoWhAt said:
The premise of the paper is (theoretically) drop particles into a black hole, count the quantum information added to the black hole, calculate the changes in the black hole, discover that the information added is proportional to the change in surface are

The classic theoretical papers on this are Bekenstein's; @atyy linked to two of them in post #4.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: atyy

Similar threads

  • · Replies 28 ·
Replies
28
Views
4K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
4K